Tylosin dose

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Chance
Member
Posts: 151
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Tylosin dose

Post by Chance » 12 Nov 2022, 19:43

Looking at the Tylosin dosage chart here, it's been brought to my attention that I have been giving too low a dose.

The vet prescribed 400mg capsules, 1 twice daily. He's 32.5kg. Apparently during setbacks, people have been giving double this!?

Should I (at least temporarily) increase the dose, as he is recovering from the Creon dose tweaking? I've given him some probiotic paste to help boost that. I know it's not a systemic antibiotic, but is there much risk of side effects to suddenly doubling the dose?

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2996
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Tylosin dose

Post by Olesia711 » 12 Nov 2022, 19:56

Yes, at this does "he vet prescribed 400mg capsules, 1 twice daily. He's 32.5kg. " you should double the Tylan dosage.

And in time..... once the right amount of TYlan has time to effective positive change..... you might find that you can reduce the CREON dose ..... because it is possible the reason why you had to use so much is because you were battling SID without the correct dosage of Tylan.......

Keep us posted.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Pialovesyoga
Member
Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Bali
My name: Pia

Re: Tylosin dose

Post by Pialovesyoga » 12 Nov 2022, 20:10

I have the same question. Yesterday our vet and I ordered Tylan soluble powder from Chewy- as they didn’t have this at the clinic. But we couldn’t find the concentration of this product listed. Based on comments here my understanding is 1/4 tea spoon x 2 times a day for 30 days as a starter.

Our diagnosis is confirmed a couple of days ago, and we have never used Tylan before.
As of now Bali’s diarrhea is pretty much stabilized with enzymes, probiotics, slippery elm and homemade or raw food.
I’m not sure if he has SID going on at the moment, but we are planning to start the 30 day protocol with Tylan as soon as I receive it in the mail. Is this a good idea? Even though he doesn’t have diarrhea and pretty good looking stools for about a week?

I feel he is on the mend already, but still looks pretty underweight. Hoping b12 protocol and steady adminstration of enzymes and good diet will help him put some weight on in a few weeks. Otherwise he is glowing, his coat looks great, he is very energetic.
Attachments
1BB070E5-31D9-4720-A510-73B0BE41D72E.jpeg
1BB070E5-31D9-4720-A510-73B0BE41D72E.jpeg (3.43 MiB) Viewed 257 times
AAF9B93D-8706-452F-92EA-A7621394EBCE.jpeg
AAF9B93D-8706-452F-92EA-A7621394EBCE.jpeg (377.83 KiB) Viewed 257 times

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2996
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Tylosin dose

Post by Olesia711 » 12 Nov 2022, 20:16

Pia, ahh poor baby... Pretty dog, such a sad look.... but this is a typical "look" of EPI dogs before they start feeling better..... you need to take a picture once he starts feeling better and compare the two pictures you will be amazed at how differently he will be holding his body....


Yes, your dog has SID... all dogs with EPI have SID.... however at the moment it is under control... SO..... it is a good thing you ordered the TYlan to have it on hand (and thank you for posting the picture of the TYlan it is the right stuff!) BUT..................since what you are doing right now is working..... do not give the Tylan (just hold on to it) until you have to.... and by this i mean if the loose stools start up again and you cannot get them under control with what you are doing now.

So.....You are doing everything correctly as sometimes probiotics and Slippery Elm are enough to keep the SID in continued good control... so don't use the Tylan unless you have to.

And... thank you so much for asking..... this was an important question :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Pialovesyoga
Member
Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Bali
My name: Pia

Re: Tylosin dose

Post by Pialovesyoga » 13 Nov 2022, 10:30

Thank you, Olesia. I think this is our lowest point. Even though the number we saw on the scale a few weeks ago and Friday are pretty much the same- looks like he maintained his weight in the past few weeks- his hip bones especially and ribs are more visible now. It breaks my heart. :cry: he is a wonderful dog and I’m determined to bring back his health and I appreciate your and the community’s help.

Since we are very new on this journey (today is the 4th day) I am still trying to find the right dosage of the enzymes and keep his stools firm. Usually the first morning stool is firm - sometimes even too firm: yesterday morning it look like round small chocolate balls, crumbly) and then later 2nd or 3rd stool of the day gets softer. Btw if I feed him twice he goes to bathroom twice, if I feed him 3 times he goes out 3.

This morning’s stool graded pretty low (attached images) compared to yesterday and his last week’s average. He had to go out
twice in 30 sec apart-hence 2 images- the first part of the stool was normal looking and it got yellow and soft at the end.

Pialovesyoga
Member
Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Bali
My name: Pia

Re: Tylosin dose

Post by Pialovesyoga » 13 Nov 2022, 10:35

Looks like I couldn’t attach the images successfully with the previous post. (Bali is crying for more food even though he just ate 1lbs raw breakfast. Yesterday he ate 2.5 lbs raw food in 3 sessions)

My question is what could be the reason for this morning’s set back? Perhaps too much enzymes? Too little and too much enzymes would result exactly the same?
Attachments
5B2BF523-A078-48FC-9F76-A405556464FF.jpeg
5B2BF523-A078-48FC-9F76-A405556464FF.jpeg (2.82 MiB) Viewed 242 times
08F8FB34-42A6-4A3D-ABEF-EC2D700C86DB.jpeg
08F8FB34-42A6-4A3D-ABEF-EC2D700C86DB.jpeg (717.89 KiB) Viewed 242 times

Chance
Member
Posts: 151
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Tylosin dose

Post by Chance » 13 Nov 2022, 12:09

Pialovesyoga wrote: 13 Nov 2022, 10:35 Looks like I couldn’t attach the images successfully with the previous post. (Bali is crying for more food even though he just ate 1lbs raw breakfast. Yesterday he ate 2.5 lbs raw food in 3 sessions)

My question is what could be the reason for this morning’s set back? Perhaps too much enzymes? Too little and too much enzymes would result exactly the same?
Right now, both of those look about perfect! For the last while, your dog has only known life with no digestive enzymes. Now it suddenly has enzymes! It has to re learn what it's supposed to do. It can take a few weeks for the digestive tract to start working properly again.

Unless there's very soft poops, very sudden urgency, or an unusual amount of toxic fumes, I wouldn't worry 😉 Any of that might mean a SIBO (AKA SID) might be getting out of hand.

I feed 3 (raw) meals a day. Usually he only goes once a day. (Unless there's a SIBO flare)! But it did take several weeks to get there at first.

Smaller meals are easier to digest at this point, so if you can do 3 - or even 4 Smaller meals, it's easier for the digestive system to get back I'm shape. Once he's more stable, and start seeing weight gain, then you can adjust feeding schedules again.

Pialovesyoga
Member
Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Bali
My name: Pia

Re: Tylosin dose

Post by Pialovesyoga » 13 Nov 2022, 12:40

Thank you, Chance. Much appreciated.
I agree smaller meals more often is better, but here is my challenge: Since we are trying to put some weight on him (66lbs with the most bonnie sad looking body today) I give him 2 to 2.5 lbs raw food (or more if cooked food).

As soon as he sees I’m preparing the enzymes to incubate he knows he’s about to get food and cries impatiently. He basically couldn’t wait even for 20 min. And as soon as he eats his meal he is still hungry and cries for more food. If it is 1/2 lbs food he ate he cries more :) because that’s not enough, if he eats 1 lbs he cries lot less and eventually stops crying.

He is my service animal so we are attached from the hip. And we live on a boat so there is no way for me to prepare his food discreetly- and he is so smart as soon as I stand up with the idea of preparing his meal, he knows as if he reads my mind!

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2996
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Tylosin dose

Post by Olesia711 » 13 Nov 2022, 12:59

Hi Pia,

Andrea had some good points... you just started on this journey....so you need to give things some time to work out.

The first poo is good. The second poo (notice the slime) is typical SID poo.... all EPI dogs have SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) to one degree or another... it is our job to get it under good control. There is a step by step protocol for this :
1. try adding prebiotics to the diet... if no improvement
2. try adding prebiotics and probiotics to the diet... if not improvement ... then
3. do a regimen of Tylan antibiotics.

SO far... you are on point with everything..... Slippery ELm and the probiotics.... so i would give this a week or two.... before using Tylan
BUT... i believe that there is even more to consider to get and keep SID under good control.... what we have observed here is that you get the best results when you address the whole dog, and that means, making sure that the:

1. the enzyme dose is correct
2. the diet is agreeable for YOUR dog.
3. the B12 levels are at least upper mid range (we like to see values in the 600's)

What enzymes and how much are you giving with each meal?
What is the size of each meal?
Has your dog's Cobalamin levels' been tested and if so, what were the results.
Is he on any B12?

Also.... as Andrea suggested... you need to feed approx 150% of what your dog requires BUT... in smaller portions which means more meals throughout the day.
And last but not least..... it would be great if you start your own thread for Bali... so we can have his history all in one place and better help you help him get straightened out.........
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Chance
Member
Posts: 151
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Tylosin dose

Post by Chance » 13 Nov 2022, 14:08

Pialovesyoga wrote: 13 Nov 2022, 12:40
As soon as he sees I’m preparing the enzymes to incubate he knows he’s about to get food and cries impatiently. He basically couldn’t wait even for 20 min.
I get it! 100%!! Chance was the same. I ended up putting the enzymes in about 2 hours or so before a meal, often right before going for a walk, or something to take his mind off it. If I touched his bowl anytime close to a meal time, it was torture on him to wait! Doing it earlier, not near "that time" made it easier.

Now I have switched enzymes, so no more incubation 🤗🤗🤗😍😅 But I am in Canada, so importing from the US was expensive and challenging sometimes!

Chance is my service dog. I am physically disabled. We're glued together. Except when he's unwell, he doesn't do as much as he did. Or if I know he's not feeling great, we both stay home.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jean and 7 guests