Epi4Dogs

Here we are again! 2 days after the perfect poop picture, and we're heading into another SIBO setback!

That night he started with the horrid gas. Yesterday his poop was greasy and softer. I dosed him with a strong probiotic paste that has helped in the past. But the gas is terrible, and today the poop is very soft, and bits of food.

Called the vet for more antibiotics!

Recap: Tylosin does not agree with him. His poop improved dramatically in color and consistency after we stopped it. I have Metro and Baytril here now. I might do Metro for 2 days to get him feeling better, then just Baytril.

At this point the vet says it's going to keep happening. Just keep him on the antibiotics for life. I really don't want to, but at this point I wonder if it's just easier for him. Trouble is Baytril is like really expensive...$380 per month. I can't keep that up. I really can't.

Another antibiotic he mentioned, that's slightly cheaper was doxycycline. He said that is another antibiotic that inhibit (not kill) bacteria. It's a little cheaper. But he says he prefers Baytril. (I got 3 weeks worth of Baytril now).

I can't think of anything to cause this so suddenly. The only thing I can think of is that I attempted giving Creon capsules instead of sprinkled on food. I did it slowly, in case! One day I did that one of the 3 meals. Next day he was fine! So following day I did that 2 of 3 meals. Again fine next day, so I did it for all 3 meals. It was the following afternoon that the horrible piews started. I have gone back to sprinkling again; but I kinda don't really think that caused this...but I might be wrong.

every so often we do come across dogs who's system just doesn't agree with Tylan.... so if that appears to be the trigger, then please do stop the Tylan.
Maybe the thing to do is use the 3 weeks of Baytril ... BUT.... ask the vet the following couple of quesitons:

1. instead of giving the full course of Baytril until the prescription runs out... ask the vet if the last week of the Baytril if you can reduce the dose to a lesser amount.... for a few days... and then the last few days... if this protocol is acceptable, further reduce the dose until completed.... if the vet says this is acceptable and if Chance does okay with a "reduced" dose of Baytril...maybe this is the way to go.

2. Or... ask the vet if the above is not possible.... then once the Baytril is completed... if you can switch to the Doxy and if so.... find out if you can start with a normal dose and then slowly reduce to a lesser dose with the Doxy .....if this would be an acceptable protocol.

3. Doxy, is a tetracycline antibiotic and should help. TYlan is a macrolide antibiotic... they are both similar in certain aspects and different in others......... worth trying if CHance doesn't do well with Tylan:

Ty. That is one thing I like about this vet (unlike the previous), he will let me do pretty much what I want.

I did tell him I would do the 2 weeks, then decide then if I stop again and keep some for the next time; or switch. He said whatever works for you and him.

I actually wondered if a reduced dose would work afterwards, kinda like with Tylosin, people start high and often reduce to 1/4 the amount. So maybe I could maintain with a lot less, say half dose...or even quarter if I am lucky.

Or I also wondered (AFTER this infection is treated), stop the meds, but maybe do one week per month as a maintenance? Other than when mucking with Creon doses, it's about once a month it flares up. So what if I start up again 3 to 4 weeks later and give for a week? MAYBE if I did this for a few months, it might get his system settled down??

i am not sure about a stop and go technique....... and PLEASE clarify with the vet first if you can do a " tapered reduced" dose with a tetracycline................

Ok thanks. Thinking about it after, the stop and go doesn't make sense. It's probably brewing before symptoms appear, so would probably not become stable.

I'll do the 2 weeks, then reassess with the vet what antibiotics to stick with, hopefully low dose protocol.

Poor guy is not feeling good tonight He's had his first dose of antibiotics.

Severe Acid reflux problem here!

Typically it's only a severe problem when his enzyme dose was too high. I did try lowering the Creon dose, just incase. But his poops are massive and yellowish with little bits of food (raw meat). Tomorrow I will have to put him back on his normal Creon dose of 45,000 lipase units. (I decreased to 40,000 a few days ago, but that's not working. There's no feasible of going in between).

He has a long ulcer history, that predates EPI diagnosis. That was largely blamed on a mast cell tumor (these tumors secrete massive amounts of histamine, including H2 histamine - stomach acid). Because of his ulcer history, and the tumor, vet put him on Pepcid indefinitely - which started a few months before EPI. SOOO.. he's already been on antacids! (The tumor has not been inflamed recently, so I don't think its to blame. But they did say it's possible for it to suddenly increase histamine release even when it appears to be behaving... hence the antacids. Pepcid was chosen initially, as it's an H2 blocker).

This big issue started about 2 days after starting Baytril for SIBO setback. (Again, he is quite sensitive to Tylosin. Tylosin is worse than SIBO). He's had Baytril before, without issue. When it started, I put him on Pantaloc instead of Pepcid (it's my prescription ). It's improved a lot, but he's still got some issues. But I am concerned it will get worse again as tomorrow I have no choice but to up the enzymes back to his normal dose.

I had started slippery elm (given 2 hours before dinner), but stopped it when SIBO hit. It has always caused him a problem when SIBO is active. I will start it again as soon as the antibiotics have the SIBO fully controlled.

He eats 3 times a day. His last meal is right before bed.

This is his 3rd time on Baytril since EPI dx. He's never had any side effects. So I can't imagine it's to blame. But timing is suspicious. I really don't know what to do to control it. I have wondered if Nexium might be a better option than Pepcid even though its a PPI. I can't figure out why it's suddenly an issue, as this time it is not related to too much enzymes!

Good Morning from the UK

Can I say I had this fear with Kara she was 39 pounds in weight at her lowest and 14 months old GSD

she had acid reflux all of her life and very little sorted it

Zantac was the omly thing that helped a half hour before food

have you checked Tyroid ?

sometime you have to revert to something stronger we had to put Kara on Oxytetracycline when SIBO hit her badly and she was then shedding her bowel

so she was put on a no meat diet, scrambled eggs and Mashed potato for 10 days , she then wouldnt settle at night until she had her meal of the same, crazy dog

I would go go back to basics and write everything down it could be some drugs fighting others and wiping out good bacteria in the gut

Hi,
here is a link with some ideas on how to manage acid reflux, on the half of the page, you have some good information, with this acid reflux problem:

https://epi4dogs.com/sidsibo-management/

Sorela

I've got a diary of sorts, with his progress and setbacks from day to day.

He is on Proviable DC at the moment. I also have a one time use paste designed to be used after antibiotic therapy. That has helped him in the very recent past. I plan to use it at lunch time. (Or might switch Baytril to lunch meal, as it's once a day; and do probiotic at night).

He is hypothyroid. Been on meds about 2 years. Levels were perfect last month.

Last B12 was just over a week before - when this started. I have been giving it every 2 weeks. So he's due tomorrow.

Zantac was pulled from the market here a few years ago and has not returned. I think there's now Zantac 360 in the US, but this is exactly the same as Pepcid. (Only Pepcid and Nexium are over the counter. Everything else is prescription only, and VERY expensive. Last check, omeprazole was about $200 per month, so I don't want to get a prescription for that ... hence using my own meds for the very short term).

Well I figured out why he's been less interested in food! Poor guy has teeny tiny little pin prick white dots (little thrush) sores through his mouth and lips!

As a person with asthma, I do occasionally get this issue myself from my inhalers. I know the extreme discomfort it caused when eating! The cure is simple. Dump a probiotic capsule in a small amount of slightly warm water. Hold that in your mouth for a minute! Within hours, pain is much better!

Problem is I can't get the dog to hold water in his mouth and gargle! I did wake the water and started using a small syringe to slowly put it in over the sores. I know it will take some time to fully heal (especially while on Baytril). Not sure if a faster way to heal it?

I doused his mouth with the first dose late afternoon, when I realized the problem (right after his lunch yesterday). Last night seemed slightly better. At first he would not touch or even sniff food. He would not take it from my hand. I very gently put a small amount of food in his mouth. He immediately started eating on his own! Had the bowl spotless, so I assume he realized...oooh it's less sore!

A used the probiotic water against after. But this morning he's still uncomfortable. He did eat slowly, by taking tiny pieces of food from my hand. He tried once to pick some up himself, but he spit it out. I am not sure what the best options are!