Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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jilbert57
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by jilbert57 » 25 Nov 2022, 13:27

I hope it was just the empty tummy!
Good day

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 6 and Sadie is 8months.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Olesia711 » 25 Nov 2022, 13:47

sounds like possible tummy acid from empty tummy....... so yes, try to give him something to see if that corrects this.
iF not, other possibilities that i can think of can be:
1. SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) acting up... don't have to have EPI to have this, for example, dogs with IBD, IBS, Pancreatitis, can also have SID....so just watch and record.
2. or it could be that he actually needs some acid reflux meds.....
3. if none of the above works try reducing the enzymes by a very tiny pinch.......

The other thing is do not get him retested for EPI too soon.... you need to wait at least a month or even a few months (2 to 3) would be better... you don't want to jump the gun.... sometimes it takes a bit for EPI to fully evolve.... and you are already giving him some enzymes.

And last but not least, yes, since not EPI... yet......, a holistic vet or an internist could both be of help finding what works best/ what may be the underlying problem. BUT.... the best problem solving can come from you directly. Keep a journal/EPI log (even if not EPI) and record EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! take poop pictures... and not only record times food/supplements are given, amount, brand etc.... but also record, walks/exercise/play (ball, frisbee of whatever) ...record the duration and record poos during walk/and describe color, volume, texture, frequency/take poo pics...... keep this journal/log and SHARE with your new vet... this will REALLY help them better decide what direction to look in for causes... https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Johnnycake
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Johnnycake » 28 Nov 2022, 13:18

You’ve gotten a lot of great advice and I can’t offer much aside from recommendations of specific things that have worked for us. But I wanted to stop by and say hang in there, you guys can do it! I have trained my own EPI dog over the past two years and he is a fully trained service dog for me now. Once he’s stable, I think you might find that you are even closer - I think the mutual understanding between a disabled human, and their disabled service dog is pretty amazing!

I have a thread in here - just if you want to read through, the whole process we went through, from a little skeleton of a dog to where he is now, is in there and it might give you just a little comfort.

You’re both doing amazing! Keep at it!

Pialovesyoga
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Pialovesyoga » 03 Dec 2022, 11:52

Thank you everyone for your input and support. Here is December update for Bali.

Bile vomiting was one occasion and it was empty stomach. I’m making sure that he would have his dinner late and not long before sleep.

We took a little trip to the desert to see our friends. They have 2 ‘healthy’ male dogs, so it it was good to observe Bali within a pack. Bali maintained healthy solid poops and healthy behavior. I reduced his meals to 3 times of a day instead 4 (but keeping the amount of the food same). Cooking fresh food for him while traveling wasn’t an issue.

93% lean ground turkey, canned pumpkin, 1/4ts enzymes, pre+probiotics. Magic formula.


But, the trouble started when we got back home. I started to implement Dr. Becker’s recipe (only the turkey recipe since it’s not much different than our magic formula) from her book that I posted. There is ground bone or calcium replacement, omega oils, and some essential minerals, which I was worried Bali was missing on during this prolonged period of turkey+pumpkin meals.
I went to the organic pet supply store to get bone replacement and some turkey organs to add to Bali’s meals. I also added puréed zucchini and apple to Bali’s vegetable intake. Bali thrives on Fiber: pumpkin, sweet potatoes, and alike.

Here is one big mistake I’ve done: when we were at the pet pantry Bali was sniffing around all the goodies, treats etc. that are put on his reach. He ended up getting a hold on to a dried cow hoof while I was talking to the owner of the shop about the supplements. Long story short he chewed and swallowed some of that hoof before I even realized. I found some big and some small and sharp 😦 pieces in his poop the next morning. And of course diarrhea came back. That was yesterday morning. I added some psyllium to his next meals to ease the process if there were any more small sharp pieces left in his system. Afternoon poop was a still a little mushy, but it was not near diarrhea. There were no more hoof pieces in it.
This morning 1st poop was as healthy looking as it could be. I felt relief and took a mental note about chew treats!(Even though he seems he really needs something to chew on.
He grabs his chew ball right after he finishes his meals to satisfy that chewing urge).

It was a long walk we took this morning, and he had to go 2 more times. The last poop was a bad case of diarrhea. So he went from a perfectly healthy poop to bad diarrhea on one morning walk.

My hunch is that the small hoof pieces triggered inflammation and SID/SIBO and now we are back on square 1 until he recovers from this again.
Last edited by Pialovesyoga on 03 Dec 2022, 12:11, edited 1 time in total.

Pialovesyoga
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Pialovesyoga » 03 Dec 2022, 12:05

This is the bone replacement/ calcium I’ve got. It suggests 1 ts with every 1lbs of food, but its high ash content turns poop gray, even sporadic much smaller amounts...
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Pialovesyoga
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Pialovesyoga » 03 Dec 2022, 12:49

@olesia
He hasn’t been on the scale yet (I really don’t want to visit the vet’s office for a while), but it seems he is slowly putting some weight on. I still can see his ribs a little, but his coat and overall himself is glowing. We always get compliments from people, mostly strangers for how good he looks.

I think he has malabsorption, but we are not sure of the reason yet. EPI is ruled out, but I’m not rushing (for now) to get another test until he turns 2. We have an appointment with a specialist for Dec. 20, but I am not sure if it’s necessary to change holiday plans to keep that appointment since I don’t even have faith on modern medicine.

I’m approaching this holistically, and there are things I sure know are working; homemade fresh food, enzymes, probiotics and slippery elm., but I need help with tweaking this by adding some variety and missing supplements (bone, minerals, omega oil etc.) for optimal health as he is still in growing stages.

Why did you suggest to record his activities (walk, play-based training with frisbee, hike etc.)? We train/ play with frisbee everyday, how would certain activities have effect on his gi issues?

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Olesia711
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Dec 2022, 20:44

you'd be amazed at trends noticed when you record everything...... for example.... if the dog has good poos beginning of a walk but then sloppy poos halfway thru the walk... depending on difference in the two poos, you can ascertain if this is transit time related or something else. for example....this happened to us with my non-EPI dog and i used this information as a rule-out trigger coupled some meal composition facts that led me to realize that my dog's loose stools and yellow stools were from the fact that he needed more fiber in his diet......

OR... for example....If your dog is flirting with diabetes.... type and duration of an activity can have a huge impact on blood sugar levels.

depending on the activity, some dogs will have stress poo... something as simple as the doorbell ringing or a visit to the vet....

I am just giving these as examples.... but when a dog is not doing well and no one can figure out exactly what is going on... look for triggers as clues and the best way to do this is to record all kinds of things :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Pialovesyoga
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Pialovesyoga » 04 Dec 2022, 15:53

Understood.

Today is the day 3 of being back to literally perfect 1st poop (1st morning poop of the day museum quality) and the 2nd poop (usually happens on the same morning walk and less than 1 hrs after the 1st poop) mushy and diarrhea at the end (the pic.)

This happens always when he eats/ swallows something that he shouldn’t- being a hawk on him during our walks is challenging especially if it is dark. What are your solutions for mitigating the chances of him to gulping something in? Because this is happening frequently and putting us on an endless cycle of diarrhea and slower recovery, let alone the stress of possible other dangers, internal damages?

We live on a boat at a marina in San Diego, and where we walk regularly is contaminated by fish bait, calamari, sometimes even hooks and lines in them, chicken bones, and all kinds of fast food leftovers. People come to the boardwalk by the way for fishing and eating and leave their trash behind. Seagulls also help to pick things from trash bins and spread them all over. So it is unfortunate that this is front of our door and Bali is quick to find and swallow these things in a split second. Sometimes I catch him, we were lucky a couple of weeks ago when I took a piece of squid with a fishline in it out of his mouth last second before he swallowed. I caught him chewing and swallowing something this morning, but it was too late to take it out.

Tuckaboo Pam
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 04 Dec 2022, 17:28

Oh Dear! What an ordeal taking a walk is for you! Just off the cuff, I think I would regularly give him something mushy w/some enzymes at the end of those dark evening walks. That's what I do when Tuck gets into someone else's unfinished kibble or plants in the yard. It can be really hard to keep them from eating random things, but bait & dead fish. Yikes! Irresistible, I am sure.

My theory about great morning poops that get softer as the day goes by, is the amount of time the stool stays in in the colon, where it absorbs water. During the day, there is not as much time between poos.

Anecdotal evidence, of course.
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 cups/day, with a couple tablespoons of Fresh Pet mixed in, because everybody else gets some. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 95!!! pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Olesia711
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Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Dec 2022, 20:52

Hi Pia...... i feel for you... regarding keeping him from eating stuff he shouldn't on your walks.... that is tough.... but i will share with you what i have shared with many others..... get a simple basket muzzle .... i used this on my middle dog Lulu ... i put it on ONLY when we went outside and took it off immediately when she came back in the house..... This will prevent him from eating anything he shouldn't.... you can get it on Amazon for about $11.. or at least that is what they used to be....

It looks like this:
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Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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