Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1210
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 20 Nov 2022, 18:29

I give only enzymes & Slippery Elm with the evening meal. All other supplements in the morning, for that very reason.

1/8 tsp for dogs under 10lbs,
¼ tsp for dogs 10lbs to 30lbs,
½ tsp for dogs 30lbs to 80lbs,
3/4 tsp for dogs 80lbs to 100lbs,
1 tsp for dog 100/+lbs.

Less can be more, so start with less.
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 cups/day, with a couple tablespoons of Fresh Pet mixed in, because everybody else gets some. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 95!!! pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

Chance
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Posts: 149
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Chance » 20 Nov 2022, 21:22

Best I can see on Dr Amazon, 1 tsp = 6g. Capsules are 400mg each. Half tsp would be 8 pills!!! That seems like a LOT! He poops soft if I give 2 doses of 2 pills.

Maybe what I have to do is dump a pill into a measuring spoon.

Thanks for the info

Pialovesyoga
Member
Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Bali
My name: Pia

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Pialovesyoga » 21 Nov 2022, 10:33

Bali’s EPi test results came out negative.
High cobalamin low folate, indicates something in small intestine, perhaps IBD?
Doctor took bunch of notes on the report (ignore that) but she suggests us to see a specialist.
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Pialovesyoga
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Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Bali
My name: Pia

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Pialovesyoga » 21 Nov 2022, 10:46

Currently Bali has no diarrhea, pretty healthy poops.
This is with ~1/4ts enzymes, homemade food (yesterday I switched from bland diet to beef and organ stew- I also made him sweet potatoes+carrot puree (he loves it and I add a generous spoon full or two into his stew) and pre+probiotics with slippery elm before meals.

I’m trying to make him gain all the weight ~10lbs that he lost in the past couple of months. And it seems he already put a couple of pounds back, although he is still always hungry and can eat the whole world.

Pialovesyoga
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Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Bali
My name: Pia

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Pialovesyoga » 21 Nov 2022, 13:46

Correction on healthy poops:
10:00am 2nd poop- dark colored diarrhea just like the other day. It’s the organ meat I fed him yesterday.
He is doing great on bland diet, but as soon as I introduce him something new it gives him diarrhea.

The test shows no Epi, I am so confused.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Olesia711 » 21 Nov 2022, 14:36

with a 7.0 Folate test result.... indicates your dog is most likely dealing with proximal small distal intestinal disease..... this is kind of a catch all phrase for a variety of issues.... but one of the most common ones is some sort of food sensitivity/IBD (common) or even a food allergy (rare)... but there are others.

First thing to do is rule out EPI, which you have done!

What we have seen in the past,.. is that some dogs with proximal small distal disease are actually helped when given pancreatic enzymes but then when the enzymes are stopped, the loose stools return with a vengeance. we have no idea why this happens.... but do share with your vet.

Usually a diet modification is key to managing this malabsorption..., and or meds (determined by what other tests your vet runs and what they discover) are what manages this.

And yes this is like IBD.............

Here is a good article on Malabsorption Syndromes.... which according to the test results... falls under the category of what you are dealing with.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/digestiv ... ll-animals and the key section is about the diet:
Dietary Modification
Dietary modification is a critical aspect of the management of small-intestinal diseases both in dogs and cats. Diets generally contain moderate levels of limited protein sources and highly digestible carbohydrates (to reduce protein antigenicity and osmolar effects and to improve nutrient availability) and low to moderate levels of fat. In addition, they are lactose and gluten free, may be fiber-restricted, and may contain increased levels of antioxidants, prebiotics (eg, fructo-oligosaccharides), or omega-3 fatty acids. These additives are thought to modulate the inflammatory response and increase the diversity of the microbiome and health of enterocytes. Prebiotics are digestible fibers that encourage the growth of a healthy microbiome.

Treatment with an exclusion diet consisting of a single novel protein source or a hydrolyzed protein should be used as trial therapy when intestinal inflammation or dietary sensitivity is suspected. Boiled white rice, tapioca, and potato are suitable gluten-free carbohydrate sources, while cooked white fish, lamb, or chicken are often used as a protein source, depending on the dietary history. Cottage cheese, duck, horsemeat, rabbit, or venison may be acceptable alternatives.

Home cooking of diets ensures the ingredients that are being fed and a commercial single protein exclusion diet is not essential during a diet trial; however, they are preferred for maintenance to reduce potential longterm nutritional imbalances. However, commercial protein hydrolysates may be the most effective diets to manage inflammatory enteropathies and identify dietary sensitivities. The response to an exclusion diet is often rapid, but the diet must be fed for at least three and, in a few cases, up to ten weeks before being considered a failure.


Also............. i see that the B12 result was 1000...... However.... were you giving B12 pills prior to this Cobalamin Blood test? If you dog was receiving B12 pills, tey needed to be stopped 1 week prior to the blood being drawn, if B12 shots were given, these need to be stopped 1 month prior to the blood being drawn for a B12 (Cobalamin) blood test.... or else you will get a false read of a high value.............................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Pialovesyoga
Member
Posts: 50
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Bali
My name: Pia

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Pialovesyoga » 21 Nov 2022, 15:02

Hi Olesia thank you.

Yes, his cobalamin levels are not accurate because I gave him a B12 pill a couple of days before the test- my rookie mistake, I didn’t know at the time.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Olesia711 » 21 Nov 2022, 15:14

well, at least you are aware of that.

Best to chat with your vet and maybe first work on a different diet plan....keeping these factors in mind:
moderate levels of limited protein sources and highly digestible carbohydrates (to reduce protein antigenicity and osmolar effects and to improve nutrient availability) and low to moderate levels of fat. In addition, they are lactose and gluten free, may be fiber-restricted, and may contain increased levels of antioxidants, prebiotics (eg, fructo-oligosaccharides), or omega-3 fatty acids.

Giving SLippery ELm would be appropriate as it is a prebiotic AND is beneficial for IBD, etc.... unless it just doesn't agree with your pup.......
However, i would not try a bunch of prebiotics.... just pick one, and give a small amount...

ALso... if changing to a special homemade diet is just too overwhelming at this time time.... you might want to talk to your vet about "trying" a true hydrolyzed food. there are about 5 real ones out there, and with our EPI dogs, although no guarantee, the hydrolyze product that appears to work better than most with our dogs is Royal Canin "Ultamino"..... but your vet might have other suggestion............

I hope this helps a little and please keep us posted.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Chance
Member
Posts: 149
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Chance » 21 Nov 2022, 15:38

Ah geeze.. that's kinda disappointing that the test is negative!

But not all is lost! It really does sound more like IBD right now. Enzymes are definitely helpful, at least while working out what foods trigger a problem.

SIBO is also very common in IBD. With low flare, it's possible Bali does have that. Both SIBO and the intestinal inflammation of IBD will cause malabsorbtion (loss of digestion). Enzymes WILL make it easier to digest! So keep the enzymes.

Once you find the right foods for Bali, and any potential SIBO treated, then you may one day be able to gradually reduce the enzymes.

For now it appears that you do not need B12 supplements.. which is nice to know going forward!

Chance
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Posts: 149
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Bali’s story: We need healing vibes and support

Post by Chance » 21 Nov 2022, 15:42

There's an IBD group that might be of help to you while you figure this out.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/DogswithI ... eeb5a09108

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