Tylosin...other options

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Chance
Member
Posts: 195
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Tylosin...other options

Post by Chance » 16 Nov 2022, 17:48

So Chance has been off Tylosin for a couple of days. I had planned to start back a low dose this morning; but he's so much better since being off it!

His tummy is a lot less noisy than it was. He's happier and seems to have more stamina. (The tummy noisy, I thought was just a new normal; because digestion will never be perfect. But I know now it was not normal).

Right now he's only on the probiotic, enzymes and B12. His last setback wasn't long ago. We've recently changed enzymes, and only just have his best dose established. I know he's not stable. I'm just paranoid at this point.

I know Metro is not the drug of choice. But what are there other options to ask the vet about if and when he gets sick again? I will obviously keep Tylosin here for emergencies, but would have to do low dose. It really makes me nervous not being on anything this early on. I know I am jumping the gun...but I haven't forgotten how terrible SIBO can get.

Sorela
Member
Posts: 30
Country: Romania
Pet name: The little Countesses
My name: Sorela

Re: Tylosin...other options

Post by Sorela » 17 Nov 2022, 04:44

You know.... not all the Tylosin powders(from every country) are the the same, like the good stuff- Tylan Elanco USA(tartrate powder 100% STRENGHT)

for example: I have a TYLAN POWDER 100 GR that has 20% TYLOCIN POWDER (my dogs are NOT ok with this product)- that is NOT the same thing, as the TYLAN powder, that has TARTRATE POWDER


another example: I also have: Tylosin(TILOZINA in my country) that has 58 % TARTRATE powder 58% strenght - that is the good stuff, but in a lower dose( I adapted the dose for my dogs, like I told you)

another example: I also have Tylan from ELANCO with tartrate powder 100% strenght, and for this product the dose is from the EPI4DOGS chart.

You said :" The pills are compounded at the pharmacy, then sent to the vet. I don't know the "concentration" of it, but I just assumed it's similar to what they get in the US."

So maybe you should try to find out what kind of powder, has your Tylosin and also if it has the tartrate powder in it, in what strenght?

Sorela
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BECKY, SHEEVA+BLACKY 13 years each, ideal weight 15kg, 13 kg, 18 kg(each girl have lost around 1.3 kg), since june 2022 chronic pancreatitis ; since 5.10.2022 CPL over 1000, hyperlipidemia, malabsorption, SID. TLI not tested yet, waiting the CPL to be stable.1 poop/day/dog, with form, orange and soft

Present: 5 low fat small meals / day/dog ;all are taking: 1cps lypex/120 gr food/dog + 1/4 tsp slipp elm/dog: 2 x/day + B12 chemeyes+selenium+ zinc+ E: 1x/day/dog+ 1/4 tsp/dog beef tripe powder: 1x/day+1/8 tilozina(Tylan) 2x/day
Ideal Poops. Weight gain 450 gr/girl
Hills low fat+Homemade: rice+ chicken breast+quail egg+Cheese 0,5% fat +sweet potatoes+boiled carrot.
We fight to decrease CPL

Chance
Member
Posts: 195
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Tylosin...other options

Post by Chance » 17 Nov 2022, 08:24

I have no way of knowing what kind of Tylosin is in the capsules. But a couple of things I can check.

The weight of the capsule and medication is 480mg. That's 80mg capsule with 400mg powder. (Just checked it on my scale).

The bottle says Tylosin 400mg. It would be a federal offense for a pharmacy to dispense less than 400mg of that ingredient per pill. Since the powder itself weighs exactly 400mg; I'm going to have to say it's 100% Tylosin. It doesn't specify tylan tartrate.it only states Tylosin 400mg.

Regardless, it's all I could get. Unlike the US, Canada has a very tight control over antibiotics. A few years ago, they used to sell certain antibiotics in fish or bird stores. Now that's not allowed....which sparked a LOT of anger in the aquarium and bird keepers!!

So this one through the vet is my only option for this medication.

Chance
Member
Posts: 195
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Tylosin...other options

Post by Chance » 17 Nov 2022, 22:18

Either way, if a dog doesn't tolerate it well, are there no other options; other than metro? I know Metro isn't a great option.

And I have already learned that at least the 400mg capsules (2x daily) did nothing at preventing a very bad infection. And the high dose....the cure is worse than the disease.

I'm just wondering if there are safer options to go to if and when a problem arises again.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Tylosin...other options

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 17 Nov 2022, 23:13

Have you tried slippery elm? https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/ What probiotic are you using?

If slippery elm is going to work, it will work within a few days. It is recommended to start with less than the suggested dose.

Metro is used often, but the most current research suggests the long term effects can be dire.
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Chance
Member
Posts: 195
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Tylosin...other options

Post by Chance » 18 Nov 2022, 00:06

Slippery elm is something I always have on hand. But not something I have ever given regularly. I have kinda just given a dose (between meals) when needed. I didn't know it was used to prevent SIBO.? I thought it was more a fiber used to help with either loose stools or constipation. If it helps keep SIBO at bay, I can make it more regular!

It does work well when SIBO is not active, but I have learned that it causes a big problem when given during an infection!!

I have Metro here; but nervous of it because of everything I read here. I did give it for 5 days once (vet prescribed 3 antibiotics when we had the white blood cell count scare. Tylosin - the 400mg , Metro and Baytril). Tylosin he stayed on, Metro I gave 5 days and Baytril I gave 2 weeks. Then the blood recheck. I dosed a heavy probiotic paste after that. Another time I used it 3 days; again followed by the probiotic paste.

He's on Proviable DC at the moment. Going on 3 weeks with that one. (Previously was Aventi GI).

Should I double up on Proviable DC, to make it more like Proviable Forte? Or would it help with getting him stable?

Thanks! :))

Sorela
Member
Posts: 30
Country: Romania
Pet name: The little Countesses
My name: Sorela

Re: Tylosin...other options

Post by Sorela » 18 Nov 2022, 00:43

Here is the link with antibiotics for SID(you have to scroll down and see- Oxytetracycline, erytromycin) you also have 2 links, in this page with the Elanco Tylan in Canada, that you can buy with RX from your Vet
https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/
BECKY, SHEEVA+BLACKY 13 years each, ideal weight 15kg, 13 kg, 18 kg(each girl have lost around 1.3 kg), since june 2022 chronic pancreatitis ; since 5.10.2022 CPL over 1000, hyperlipidemia, malabsorption, SID. TLI not tested yet, waiting the CPL to be stable.1 poop/day/dog, with form, orange and soft

Present: 5 low fat small meals / day/dog ;all are taking: 1cps lypex/120 gr food/dog + 1/4 tsp slipp elm/dog: 2 x/day + B12 chemeyes+selenium+ zinc+ E: 1x/day/dog+ 1/4 tsp/dog beef tripe powder: 1x/day+1/8 tilozina(Tylan) 2x/day
Ideal Poops. Weight gain 450 gr/girl
Hills low fat+Homemade: rice+ chicken breast+quail egg+Cheese 0,5% fat +sweet potatoes+boiled carrot.
We fight to decrease CPL

Chance
Member
Posts: 195
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Tylosin...other options

Post by Chance » 18 Nov 2022, 01:09

Ooh. The pet pharmacist is listed as a Canadian option. That is where my vet got it from! So it has to be the "good one" I was giving.

Ok. Some options there. Tetracycline and amoxicillin. If these are listed as viable options, presumably these also work by inhibiting bacteria rather than killing it? Thus safer than Metro. I'll talk to the vet about those next time I need something!

Thanks!

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