First time poster in need of help.

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Post Reply
HunnysMom
Member
Posts: 31
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Hunny

First time poster in need of help.

Post by HunnysMom » 22 Nov 2022, 04:02

I’m posting here after waking up at 2am to hunny having vomited in her crate. I just found this website the other day and am desperately trying to get help.

Hunny just turned 3 in October and up until September she was a super healthy girl with no health problems at all.

Started having loose stool end of September then I began to notice weight loss early October. Originally I thought she was having diarrhea because I changed her food. Changed it in august with zero issues but then I could not get the food again when I needed to refill end of sept so for same brand but different formula and ever since her poop has not been the same.

Have made 2 trips to one vet and 1 trip to
Another.

Here is the info I can provide:
Has had blood work but nothing clearly shows EPI.

Has lost about 10 lbs. and as of last week it seemed as though her weight was stable but definitely concerned she will lose more.

She is on Hills low fat I/D for about 2 weeks
Now.

1 teaspoon Pancreplus powder mixed with every
1 cup of food. I mix some warm water in it and let incubate for 20 mins before feeding. We just upped her 2 cups a day to 3 cups a day. Vet wants her calories upped.

I sprinkle I packet of Purina floristore (not sure this is correct name) on the food 1x per day.

1/2 metronidazole 2x per day and once finished moving to tylison (spelling?)

Giving her 1 tablet b12 each day

Her stool ranges from bright yellow straight diarrhea to slightly formed yellow with grey patches.

Her food “repeats” on her.

About 2 days ago she started slightly vomiting…I say slightly because it’s more like spitting up. When this happens it’s clear water with slight chunks of her food.

Vet wants her to have an ultrasound.

I’m very concerned about her and feel really lost. I’m trying to do the best I can and nothing is changing at all.

The one thing that is good is that she is in good spirits and she’s still wagging her tail and even though more lethargic she’s still my
Happy girl.

If needed I can give her specifics of her blood work too.

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 1702
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: First time poster in need of help.

Post by jilbert57 » 22 Nov 2022, 09:36

Good morning. I am sorry Hunny is not doing well. The tests you need to request are the Tli, B12 and Folate. The Tli is the test for Epi and you need to food fast 8-10 hours before the test.

The vomiting sounds like you have some SID going on. How much metro is left?

Normally Epi dogs do not need a special prescription diet but do better on a grain free diet without peas, lentils or legumes. But for now keep the diet she's on and see the results of the Epi test.

What B12 is she on?

Please wait until after Thanksgivingbto have the blood test done as you would rather it not set for 2 or 3 days before testing. Maybe have it on a Monday.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 6 and Sadie is 8months.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

HunnysMom
Member
Posts: 31
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Hunny

Re: First time poster in need of help.

Post by HunnysMom » 22 Nov 2022, 10:55

Hi Jill! Thanks for your reply.

I failed to share that she did have blood work done.

I fasted her for at leat 12 hours and she had blood done. They may have given her a treat at the vet before her blood though (I cant remember).

Her TLI is 4.6 and it says this next to it: Inconclusive. Mild decrease is suggestive of exocrine pancreatic insuciency (EPI) and may be seen early in the disease. Consider retesting in one month, or sooner if patient was not fasted prior to the test.

Her B12 (Cobalmin) is 963 which is a bit high

Folate is 7.9

According to the vet it does not show EPI but we are treating it as such.

This morning I switched to the Tylisin because I feel like the metronidazole really isnt doing anything. Again, I was going to finish it up (I have about 3-5 more days worth)

I Know her B12 is a bit high but but I started giving her Cobalequin tablets by a company called nutramax after her blood results.

Her prescription food will run out this weekend. Not sure what food to get from here. I liked her old food a lot and she did great on it but now with all of this I have no idea what I should be feeding her.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1210
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: First time poster in need of help.

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 22 Nov 2022, 11:03

Hunnysmom, I am so sorry for you. It's rough when you love someone & they are suffering so.

You mention blood work. Can you please ask your vet to email the tests & results to you, and then post them here? If TLI is among them, were you instructed to fast her for twelve hours prior to the blood draw?

Here is a video that helped me help my vet with Tucker's diagnosis.

We all agree with JIll. If the TLI was not run, please go ahead & set it up for next Monday or Tuesday.

video---

https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/h ... -dogs.aspx

Take Care, and ask all the questions you have. Someone will have input.--- Pam & Tucker

Just read your update! Forgive me for not erasing it...Here's something to add.

YEA for switching to Tylosin!!!

What breed is she? How much does she weigh, and how much SHOULD she weigh? What were/are her symptoms?

I have been involved with the forum for 3 1/2 years, and in that time my Tucker has gone from a 60 pound weakling, to a robust 95 pounder. I feed him mainly https://www.amazon.sg/Elite-Herding-Buf ... B07QD2QVM3 , but I have also fed him https://smile.amazon.com/Taste-Wild-Pac ... 483&sr=8-6. Both are popular forum choices for EPI dogs.

There are four cornerstones to treatment:

ENZYMES Many of us use https://enzymediane.com/ 6X. 1 teaspoon enzymes/1 cup kibble, add room temp liquid & let sit 20-30 minutes. EVERYTHING she eats has to have enzymes with it. Treats may have to go, for awhile.

DIET Grain free & less than 4% fiber. Some, but not all, EPI dogs do poorly when they are fed poultry. Feed 150% the amount you would feed at her IDEAL weight, divided into 3, or preferably, 4 meals.

B12 Needs to be above normal, 600+. Tucker's score was 666, but I supplement him anyway. They just tinkle it out if they get too much. https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php ... gSEALw_wcB

SID All EPI dogs have it. May be controlled with slippery elm, slippery elm + probiotics, and/or Tylan antibiotic. Good info on this tab https://epi4dogs.com/sidsibo-in-brief/

Keep a journal, and once you gather all your goodies, make only one change at a time. We have all had to tweak our routine, because each dog is different.

Feel free to ask as many questions as you have, and stay on the same thread here. You may want to share the forum with your vet, too. You've come to the right place, where you and Belle will get lots of help!

Take Care---Pam & Tucker
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 4 cups/day, with a couple tablespoons of Fresh


Some of this is clearly redundant. It's from an email I sent to a new member awhile back. It includes the basics, and should be helpful.

Dogs can segue into EPI.

Watch the video and try following the cornerstones.

I hope this helps! ---P
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 cups/day, with a couple tablespoons of Fresh Pet mixed in, because everybody else gets some. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 95!!! pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1210
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: First time poster in need of help.

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 22 Nov 2022, 11:05

Tucker now eats Taste of the Wild High Prairie. Get it on Amazon. Gotta go cook!
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 cups/day, with a couple tablespoons of Fresh Pet mixed in, because everybody else gets some. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 95!!! pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

HunnysMom
Member
Posts: 31
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Hunny

Re: First time poster in need of help.

Post by HunnysMom » 22 Nov 2022, 11:21

HI pam - thanks.

This is a lot if information and it seems very trial and error.

What breed is she? - she is a rescuer do not know her exact breed. She is def pit, probably staffy, maybe some lab but she is def. a mixed girl.

How much does she weigh - 29 lbs :(

and how much SHOULD she weigh? - about 39 lbs

What were/are her symptoms? - I think I put them in my original post but currently the following:
- poop is yellow, diarrhea, sometimes it is formed, sometimes it has grey patches, sometimes it is just pure yellow diarrhea
- over the past 2 months I can probably count on both hands the number of times her poop was REALLY formed. Before this she was so healthy and great poops. It feels like it either came out of nowhere or after I had to switch her food. Very confusing????
- her food is repeating on her a lot....i can actually hear it come up and into her throat/mouth then she is licking licking licking. It repeats several times a day. 2 nights a go I work up to her vomiting little, and then this morning when i posted she vomitted again.
- she had SOME gas when everything started but this went away. she has not had gas in a few weeks
- she had bright red blood in her stool for a few days back in mid to late oct and that went away

Looking forward to your reply.

HunnysMom
Member
Posts: 31
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Hunny

Re: First time poster in need of help.

Post by HunnysMom » 22 Nov 2022, 13:52

Pam - the links didn't show clearly:

I have been involved with the forum for 3 1/2 years, and in that time my Tucker has gone from a 60 pound weakling, to a robust 95 pounder. I feed him mainly https://www.amazon.sg/Elite-Herding-Buf ... B07QD2QVM3 , but I have also fed him https://smile.amazon.com/Taste-Wild-Pac ... 483&sr=8-6. Both are popular forum choices for EPI dogs.

I am looking for 1 recommended dog food to start Hunny out with. She is on Hills low fat i/d right now. We will run out of it over the weekend and I just want one solid recommendation I can put her on.

Thanks so much!

Chance
Member
Posts: 151
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: First time poster in need of help.

Post by Chance » 22 Nov 2022, 13:59

Just looking at your post. I *think * perhaps you are giving too much of the pancreved per meal. This causes acid reflux. This is a more concentrated enzyme, so most use a fair bit less. My dog is a 75 lbs yellow Lab, with zero pancreatic enzymes of his own. He got 3/4 tsp per 3/4 lbs of raw meat. (It's nearly impossible to compare raw to kibble accurately, but approx 2 cups of food. He eats 3 meals per day.). If I gave more, the acid reflux was bad. He's gained 18 lbs. Another 2 or 3 lnd and he'll be perfect.

I recently switched enzymes to Creon. I did have that problem again when trying to determine the amount best for him. (An example, I was giving 4.5 capsules of Creon 10,000. The vet said let's just go to 2 capsules of Creon 25,000 to make it easier. I agreed. It would be easier! And that teeny tiny bit extra won't hurt! Except it did! Again he wound up with acid reflux and was puking up sometimes)! I had to call the vet to get more 10,000 units. Now I give 2 Creon 10,000 plus ONE Creon 25,000 - back to the total of 45,000. No more reflux problems!

That's how much difference a little bit can make. And this is a dog who most likely eats nearly double what your dog does. My guess is you'd need less than half tsp per meal. (Too much enzymes can also cause loose stools too. It can be a balancing act).

Some enzyme companies make it difficult to understand. They recommend quantity x per meal. But that is misleading, as small dog's meal is much less than a larger dog. They define a "meal" as 2 cups of kibble. MANY have read that, dosed 3/4 tsp to a 12 lbs dog and wonder why they are worse since starting treatment!

It's a balance between the right dose of enzymes for YOUR dog. The right B12, and right probiotic. And as you've discovered already, the right antibiotic when there's an out of control infection. It is something I am still trying to balance. For right now, he's doing great. Perfect, actually. But it's only a couple of weeks since we finished treatment for the last infection. So he's definitely not stable YET!

Good luck! You'll get there. Just might take time and patience!

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1210
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: First time poster in need of help.

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 22 Nov 2022, 17:36

FOOD---Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream OR High Prairie.

OR, Sport Dog Elite, for Herding Dogs...BUT it seems to be out of stock everywhere. Tucker eats High Prairie, and I buy it on Amazon.
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 4 cups/day, with a couple tablespoons of Fresh Pet mixed in, because everybody else gets some. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 95!!! pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

User avatar
Montgomery
Member
Posts: 308
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: First time poster in need of help.

Post by Montgomery » 22 Nov 2022, 18:02

Would Ovol help this pup with her gas? Worked for Montgomery.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and Dr. Maggie at breakfast. He's a strong, fearless little Spitfire with a real Merlin engine.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jean and 6 guests