ZEUS: Another Newbie!

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
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ZEUS: Another Newbie!

Post by Olesia711 » 30 Jan 2023, 18:56

by ZeusMom » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:32 pm

Hi, I haven't figured out yet how to start a post - so I am replying here. My now 16 month old German Shepherd, Zeus has been getting treatment and improving. But he is now very difficult at the vet - he has gotten 3 shots of 1 mL B12 the last three weeks. Due to the situation, we would like to give our own shots but I was thinking about trying the Wonder Labs capsules but hate to mess with what seems to be going well seeing that there is a chance he will not be a good patient for it. He has gained over 2 lbs in 2 weeks and has energy. Poop is decent. I don't really know what I am asking - maybe for advice on going the shots at home route vs. changing to the oral capsule route. The vet wants to give Zeus a blood draw test and put him under for that - he had to be sedated for the xray in the initial exam and I want to put off the blood draw as long as possible - he has progressively gotten worse with each visit. We are going to get Z a muzzle and give him some "doggy downers" perhaps that he was prescribed hoping that would help and then I can also be in the room for a blood draw - I am sorry to hijack this post. I would be giving him a shot in three days to keep up with his schedule and I think that is my best route. It seems that if he has "too much" he will only pee it out, if I am correct? Just wondering too about thoughts on having to get the follow up blood work done so soon. Thanks for any feedback!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Re: ZEUS: Another Newbie!

Post by Olesia711 » 30 Jan 2023, 19:05

Hi Zeus's mom...... you can reply here on Zeus's own thread.
AND..... in a bit, i will send you some visuals on how to start your own thread.... but honestly going forward, just continue on this thread.

Even though the B12 shots are working, with the bad reaction Zeus is having, i'd definitely try the WOnderlabs Pet Factor B12 pills. Usually they work very very well, we have only had a handful of dogs that did not respond well... actually these pills often work better than the shots in many cases, but then again, there is no guarantee.
https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

Next... when you say that your vet needs to put Zeus under for a blood test.... is this going to be for the TLI test to confirm EPI? If so, be sure to food fast Zeus for at least 12 hours prior to the blood test. When testing for EPI, the dog can remain on enzymes and will not skew the test results.

If your vet wants to draw blood for a B12 test.... you cannot do this unless the last B12 shot given was 1 month prior You have to wait 1 month from last B12 shot before testing for B12) . If on B12 pills, you have to stop the pills 1 week prior to the blood test.

And yes, if you give too much B12 .. they will jsut pee out the excess.

If your vet will sell you the bottle of B12 serum and teach you how to give the B12..... that is an option too. Ask the vet if you can tent the skin... if yes, that may be helpful for Zeus.... and/or give him a wonderful treat after the shot so that he associates the shot with a reward (if this is an EPI dog, try giving just a bite of protein (meat)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Fleford
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Posts: 1
Country: United States
State: Virginia
Pet name: NUSSE

Re: ZEUS: Another Newbie!

Post by Fleford » 31 Jan 2023, 03:51

Olesia711 wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 18:56 by ZeusMom » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:32 pm

Hi, I haven't figured out yet how to start a post - so I am replying here. My now 16 month old German Shepherd, Zeus has been getting treatment and improving. But he is now very difficult at the vet - he has gotten 3 shots of 1 mL B12 the last three weeks. Due to the situation, we would like to give our own shots but I was thinking about trying the Wonder Labs capsules but hate to mess with what seems to be going well seeing that there is a chance he will not be a good patient for it. He has gained over 2 lbs in 2 weeks and has energy. Poop is decent. I don't really know what I am asking - maybe for advice on going the shots at home route vs. changing to the oral capsule route. The vet wants to give Zeus a blood draw test and put him under for that - he had to be sedated for the xray in the initial exam and I want to put off the blood draw as long as possible https://vampiresurvivors3.com - he has progressively gotten worse with each visit. We are going to get Z a muzzle and give him some "doggy downers" perhaps that he was prescribed hoping that would help and then I can also be in the room for a blood draw - I am sorry to hijack this post. I would be giving him a shot in three days to keep up with his schedule and I think that is my best route. It seems that if he has "too much" he will only pee it out, if I am correct? Just wondering too about thoughts on having to get the follow up blood work done so soon. Thanks for any feedback!
Regarding giving Zeus shots at home, administering shots can be a challenging task and requires a lot of patience and care. It is advisable to get trained by a veterinarian first before attempting it on your own. If you are not comfortable with administering shots, it may be best to stick with the oral B12 capsule route.

As for the follow-up blood work, it is important to monitor Zeus's progress and ensure that the treatment is working. Blood work can provide valuable information about his health and can help your veterinarian determine if any changes need to be made to the treatment plan. If you are concerned about Zeus being sedated for the blood draw, you could discuss with your veterinarian if it is possible to conduct the test while Zeus is awake.

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Johnnycake
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Re: ZEUS: Another Newbie!

Post by Johnnycake » 31 Jan 2023, 10:10

Hey!! Welcome to you both!!

Johnny is one of the few dogs who does much better on weekly injections than he does oral B12 - something about the oral B12 he does not process well and he was having to take 8-10x the recommended amount. So we do weekly injections at home instead!

I would highly, highly suggest looking into cooperative care training! For Johnny’s injections, we trained a nose target. I use one of those suction cup lick mats people use for dogs’ baths, suction cup it to the wall, and Johnny is then trained to hold his nose on the target while I give him the injection.

This takes a lot of the stress out and also makes it his choice. A great thing about doing injections at home is that if he opts out, it’s no big deal, we can try again later or the next day.

Let me know if you want more info or have any questions! This is something I trained a lot when I was working as a zoo keeper. I have videos of Johnny and I doing this as well. Honestly I recommend it for every dog/animal but it does become more necessary when you have dogs like our EPI dogs that have some unique medical needs!

It can be intimidating at first learning to give the injections (I started out with frogs and I was so scared I was going to hurt them at first) but it’s 100% doable if that’s what you guys decide you want to do!

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Re: ZEUS: Another Newbie!

Post by Olesia711 » 31 Jan 2023, 11:43

Thanks MacKenzie for posting about how you do B12 shots...... when i had to poke Izzy in her upper lips to draw blood for insulin reading for her Diabetes.......... i too used a reward method to help her get ued to being stabbed by a needle (in the mouth too!) and in a very short time when i would say "time for mommy to draw blood).... she'd come running to me and sit right down....waiting for me to stab her simply because she knew there was a nice treat of real meat immediately after i drew blood from her.

We didn't do the B12 shots (i did pills instead)... but with the insulin shots.... i was SOOoooo scared, until my vet showed me how to tent the skin.... not sure if this can be done with B12... but it sure helped me with the insulin shots.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

Barb
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State: New Jersey

Re: ZEUS: Another Newbie!

Post by Barb » 03 Feb 2023, 16:55

Hello and welcome. I just wanted to give you input on B12 injections in case you want to continue on that route. We gave Kolby injections for the first couple years when he was first diagnosed. I had noticed that when the vet gave the injection, Kolby never reacted at all. It was as if he didn't even feel it. And when it is given under the skin, they do not feel it. You don't go into the muscle.

The key is getting the right size needle. We used a Syringe 3CC size 25G 5/8 Monoject (Single) You can order them online. We would ask Kolby to sit, my husband would just hold his head still while I pulled up the skin between his shoulder blades as Olesia described. It only takes a second. The vet can show you how. It was kind of hilarious because I was so excited when I gave him his first one that he thought he did something great, so whenever I would tell him it was time for his b12 he would come running to sit. Of course, he got an enzymed treat afterwards. I realize not every dog would be this easy and you might want to practice having him sit without injecting a few times so he gets used to what you are asking him to do. At the beginning we also put his leash on Kolby so he didn't decide to walk away.


You know your dog best, so you can tell what would work best for him.

Barb

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: ZEUS: Another Newbie!

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Feb 2023, 19:15

thanks Barb for your input about giving B12 shots..... that was REALLY helpful!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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