Epi4Dogs

Hello everyone! Our Ruby girl is doing great on her Purina Pro Plan GastroENteric food topped with two crushed PancrePlus tablets. We’re going to see an IMS next week and he told our vet the tablets were worthless compared to the powder, so we’re trying to make the switch. I am starting with one meal a day, the evening one because it had slippery elm on it and I can keep an eye on her until morning- hopefully limiting any poop disasters if this experiment doesn’t work.

I am confused on how to even begin to calculate what is in my Enzyme Diane bag to compare it to what is in two Pancre Plus tablets. I am attaching a photo of the label on my Enzyme Diane bag.Is the amount on the label equal to what is in one teaspoon? Each tablet of Pancre Plus has approx 9000 Lipase, so she is getting roughly 18000 a meal. Today I gave her the evening meal which was 1 cup plus 4 tablespoons of PPP EN with 1/8 tsp of Enzyme Diane enzymes. I hate to just shot in the dark it, but we see the IMS next week and would like to see if we can get some more food in her before then.

We need increase the enzymes to increase her food because we’re topped out at 1 cup plus 2 tablespoons with the 2 Pancreplus tablets. If I go over that she gets loose stools. She is losing weight again and we need to increase her feed.

Her “approximate” cups a day based on her current weight is 2 1/2 and she is getting close to 4 cups spread out over 3 meals.

Ruby did not test positive for EPI. She doesn’t have parasites. And everything our vet can think of is ruled out. The IMS wants to see her because he swears it is EPI.

Currently she is all solid poops but she acts like she is starving to death and will eat her poop any chance she gets. Hence the increasing food and enzymes.

Any help would be appreciated!

The tablets are tricky but sounds like you have a routine.
Our normal rule is 1 level teaspoon 6x enzyme powder per 1 level cup of kibble. Mix maybe 1/8 cup room temp water stir and incubate 15 to 20 mins then serve.
How many tabs do you have? If your routine was working I might continue to use the tablets so they don't go to waste.
Mickey had pancreatitis not EPI but I too started him on the tabs. But when I joined the forum I switched to Dianes enzymes. Mickey ate 1/3c kibble 4 times a day and got 1/3 teaspoon enzyme incubated on food at each meal.

So do you mean when she is at her correct weight she will eat 2.5c of food a day but currently she is eating 4 cups,?

Jill

She is around 40 lbs and the label calls for feeding a 36-50 lb dog between 2 1/4 - 2 7/8 cups. She gets around 3 3/4 to 4 cups a day which is right around what they suggest feeding a 75 lb dog..

She had horrible lip smacking last night through the night after one meal on the powdered enzymes. Maybe a bit of gas this morning, nothing extreme. And no midnight bathroom runs. She has yet to go out for her morning bathroom break. If she can wait, we usually wait until the sun is up so I can see her poop well.

I incubate her food with warm water every feeding. The bad thing about the tablets is that I am wondering if I need to increase her to 3 per meal and unfortunately that is going to get really expensive really quick. She is on an rx food…. I may just go back to the tablets and see if I can get her to stabilize with 1 1/2 cups with two tablets if I increase slowly.

I just joined this forum...first post and all. Interestingly what you're describing does not exactly match our EPI experience but when it gets prohibitively expensive you have to re-evaluate. I switched from the vet's prescribed stuff to enzyme diane early in our journey to avoid some of the prescription costs. We're actually back to the prescription stuff because enzyme diane costs more now, but I suppose what I'm saying is, I've changed enzymes 3 or 4 times, and it has not had an effect on management. I don't think you'll go wrong trying enzyme diane, the powders are really easy to manage.
My Australian Cattle Dog is a rescue and was diagnosed EPI by the rescue vet (and re-diagnosed by my vet 6 months later). She was 29 pounds and rail thin at intake, she weighed about 35 when I adopted her, she's stayed pretty close to 45 ever since. But two other things have had a significant impact - Food and B12. You'd think that the prescription food would be better, I don't know, I switched her to a fancy limited ingredient formula - she's also allergic to chicken - and we've had fantastic poops ever since. Our vet did bloodwork and really believes B12 is necessary for her, so we learned to give injections, and have a giant bottle of b12. I want to investigate the oral supplements, but I have this giant bottle, and don't have to pay for frequent bloodwork to use it, so at the moment it's working. When she was eating some of the other foods in the past, I could tell when she was behind on her shots from her poops, so I knew it was having a significant effect.
I guess TLDR, powders good, enzyme diane good, look into b12 levels, and maybe food.

Mamabear7, I went back and reread Olesias response to your first post. She suggested 1/2 to 3/4 teaspoon powdered enzyme per cup of kibble so I would go with that.
Is it possible for you to post her blood labs for us?

Thanks
Jill

Hi Jigsaw! Welcome to you and your pup. Maybe you could start a thread and introduce your pup. Please include your daily routine of enzymes used and prep, diet you feed, antibiotics used for SID, B12 given. This way we can help if you need but other members can see what you do and what works for your pup!
Thanks for chiming in with your story!

Jill

i agree again... for now, try stopping the pills and "start" with 1/2 to 3/4 tsp of powdered enzymes per 1 cup of food.
ALSO..... B12 and SID could also be in play.

I thought you posted before...... but if so, need to find the original thread.... if possible post everything on one thread... so we can follow the history... even if the topic changes...............

Thanks ladies! I could not for the life of me find which amount your suggested. Thank goodness someone did. I read through that feed two times.

My original thread was New to Forum.

Can you over do the B12? Her food actually has it in there as well. So I worry about overdosing her.

She did have a looser stool (on a walk) the day after we tried the enzymes on her evening meal. But I only gave her about 2/3 of a 1/8 tsp. So I am going to try the 1/2 tap and see if that will be better. I didn’t want to over do it but I could have under done it.

Any extra B12 is excreted in the urine as it is a water soluble vitamin.

My normal dogs that I would run long distances with (10 to 15 miles) usually pooped a normal poop before starting then somewhere mid run would have a much looser stool. Then by evening it was back to normal.

https://epi4dogs.com/b12-in-brief-2/


Jill