Epi4Dogs

Hello everyone. My Belgian Shepherd just got diagnosed with EPI this week and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. She got sick literally a few weeks after I got her with stomach symptoms and has been sick ever since with symptoms increasing. Currently she has diarrhea and constant pooping (about 10 x day or more), weight loss, fatigue (she mostly lays down somewhere and has stopped playing etc.), occasional vomiting, constant hunger to the point that she eats everything from the ground and especially loves eating poop, excessive urination with clear urine (she needs to pee every 1-1,5h), and aggressive behaviour (she has seriously attacked me and both of my older dogs multiple times and both of my older dogs have needed medical care for this).

It's been a really tough start for our relationship and to properly care for her I have had to spend all my paid annual leave and I'm now on unpaid leave as she cannot stay alone for more than an hour without the house being full of diarrhea and pee (literally it's everywhere) and because I'm not able to sleep at night for more than an hour at times before I need to take her out. I was hoping to get a diagnosis for something that's curable so getting this diagnosis for this young puppy was really heartbreaking.

Since we got the diagnosis, I have spent a ton of time on the internet and consulted five different veterinarians about the consequences of having EPI pretty much since birth. As she haven't gotten nutrients to support development and is already expressing neurological symptoms which implies that her brain hasn't gotten enough nutrients either, I'm worried about the consequences this will have her overall development. None of the vets I've consulted have had experience of EPI for this young puppies so they could only give me their best wishes and hope she doesn't develop severe hip dysplasia or other developmental issues and that she will in fact recover from this (having literally never been healthy).

Does anyone else have experience with EPI on puppies this young?

welcome from the UK

My girl was 14 months old when diagnosed, but yes we have had many very young dogs

so what medication is she on following the diagnosis , she will need enzymes, b12 , and possibly antibiotics, has whichever vet you are with given you anything, what you describe as diarrhea is undigested food, so she wont be getting nutrients

she is likely very frightened and starving literally so she will attack, she is also likely to be low on b12 this will create unusual behaviour

My Kara had projectile pooing and yes constantly all day and all night, and would have eated wood , and it was on the floor all over my carpets up the walls etc.

so questions

what food are you giving >

how often and are there enzymes with it ?

how much food are you giving ?

How was she diagnosed and what were the results ?

Please dont give up, I was in a state with Kara but once she had enzymes and b12 we turned a corner

that was decent of the vets to give good wishes and thats being polite

can you describe what attack it was


so please ask away

jeanx

For me, the really worrying thing is that she hasn't probably ever gotten enough nutrients and we might have to wait for several months before she starts to have. It's very different if this happens to a grown or almost grown dog compared to a small puppy who needs all the nutrients they can get to support their development. Malnourishment in puppies causes serious damage.

what food are you giving >
Purina Hypoallergenic as per the vet's recommendation

how often and are there enzymes with it ?
Four times a day with enzymes 5g per meal as the vet ordered + probiotics + Florequilibre microbiote

how much food are you giving ?
At the moment she eats total 600g a day as per the vet's recommendation

How was she diagnosed and what were the results ?
She got tested for everything possible as the symptoms progressed.
TLI 2
liver enzymes AP and ALT sky-high
hemolysis
severe anemia (low HGB, HCT, RBC, and MCH)
too high monocytes, potassium, acid folic, and phosphorus
too low albumin and protein

can you describe what attack it was
She bit me in the face and other time in the hand and I had to force her off of my hand by force. She keeps attacking my oldest dog and at worst bit her so she had two bite marks that needed stitches and couldn't walk for days. She also attacked my other dog and she had bite marks that luckily didn't need stitches after vet's examination. In the attacks she keep biting even if the other dog is pinned on the ground and not fighting back anymore and i have to force her off of them and when she's off, she tries to attack again. If I wasn't there, she could probably kill the other dogs as she's already bigger than them. I can't take them for walks together anymore or leave them together when I'm away (even off to shower). My other dogs are also terrified of her and don't want to come to the same part of the house with her anymore.

which enzymes are you giving

has she always been difficult ?

did the vet advise b12 supplementation

She gets Canizyme as the enzyme. No B12 was prescribed at this point.

I literally don't know how she's normally as I had her for a full two and half weeks before she started showing symptoms (from seven weeks old to ten weeks old). However, she's seen an animal behaviorist multiple times during the diagnostic process and has been labeled as non-aggressive and non-dominant by nature. She also doesn't have general signs for resource, food, or fear aggressiveness. The animal behaviorist thought it's either pain or neurological.

that enzyme is not sufficient for EPI

https://www.oleapharma.com/en/Janssen-Cilag/CANIZYME-powder-vitamin-complex-enzymatic-digestion-Bt-350-6887.html

my suggestion is to order from Chemeyes UK who ship to your country , or try Panzym please !

Panzym is the one we used for Kara for 8 years

have a look on Amazon

if not let me know

I know you are in Luxenbourg but I am happy to talk with you by phone

for some reason this is duplicating

I have no idea in your area but I am happy to talk with you let me know

Welcome to you and your pup. I am so sorry you are having these difficulties with your girl. You are in good hands with Jean and it will help you immensely if you can talk with her. As she indicated, the enzymes you are using are not strong enough to replace what she needs and that is part of the reason she is not improving. My guess is she probably is low on B12 also (most of our dogs are low at diagnosis)and this can cause a whole host of problems. Generic B12 is not expensive if she needs it and can be given in injections under the skin or in pill form if it has Intrinsic factor. Many of us get ours from Wonderlabs.....you just have to see if they ship to your area.

She is obviously stressed, afraid, and hungry, but you have to keep yourself and your other dogs safe while you are working out her treatment. When she gets the right enzymes, food, and B12, things should start to improve
dramatically, provided there is nothing else going on. Perhaps you and Jean can discuss the other test results and what they might mean.

You are under a lot of stress, so be gentle with yourself.

Barb

Thank you for the info regarding the enzymes. It's rather concerning that our vet sold us enzymes that don't work.

About my constant questions about whether having EPI since a few weeks old has a ton of effect in the growth. My dog is a working line Belgian Malinois with whom it's super important to do everything during their growth period to ensure they grow up with a healthy body. They're not traditional companion dogs and if they're not suitable for the heavy work they need to stay sane, they will end up euthanized as not being able to work makes them very destructive and in many cases, downright dangerous to everyone. As malnourishment in puppies, especially up till five months old, has a severe risk of causing cruciate, hip, and arthritic problems, I'm very concerned whether she really has a chance to live a good life despite getting her stomach issues under control with enzymes, food, and supplements. She has already missed out the whole 2-5 month period that's extremely crucial. If she was say, a year old, I wouldn't be as concerned, but she has literally not gotten nutrients during her most important growth part in term of skeletal development. Similarly, if she was a typical pet dog that could cope with a life with not-so-good joint and skeletal structure and take some supplements and leave the heavy labor to others, I wouldn't be as concerned as I am now.

Montgomery's symptoms began at eight days old. We got him at five days old. He didn't poop for three days. Didn't stop pooping for four years. Multiple veterinarians, wormed, wormed, wormed, all manner of dietary tweaks, finally a veterinarian who had seen EPI and that started us off on our road to recovery. He just turned eleven. He is a solid nine pounds. Smart as a whip, tough as nails. This Spitfire has a Merlin engine and it roars.
It was uphill all the way. Thank goodness for EPI4Dogs and a couple of excellent veterinarians. I feel your pain with the lack of sleep. We hand-raised this guy. Every two hours with a baby bottle of formula, clean him, feed him, clean him, bed. I was so tired I was hallucinating. I have cleaned up enough diarrhea to qualify as a gong farmer. My hands are impervious to burns from all the laundry.
My point, and I do have one, is that it takes time. You'll get there. You've got an excellent forum here, so much information. If Montgomery can get well, anyone can. You've got this.