Epi4Dogs

I've started Creon for my cat, going by feel to figure out dosing. I know that dosing will be different pet to pet, but I'm trying to get an idea of what is working for others.

Can anyone advise on the dosing you landed on for your cat or small dog? Please include the following details:

-Weight of cat/dog
-Number calories per meal
-Creon dosage per meal
-Number of meals per day

Thanks so much!

Hi Rowan's mom,

There is only 1 cat that we know of that uses CREON successfully, and you have already and thankfully connected with her.

REgarding dogs on CREON..... there are many that may or may not respond.... BUT.... the information of how much of a dose based on dog's weight will not give you any useful information because the problem is that every dog gut flora varies and this inturn does affect the pH so dose timing and potency varies from one dog to the next. For example, we have had GSDs that do well with CREON 10, whereas other GSDs need CREON 25. The majority of these dogs do well with the capsule opened and the pellets sprinkled on the food, but then again, some do better with the capsule given whole a few minutes prior to a meal while other do better with the capsule given whole halfway thru the meal or a few minutes after the end of a meal... Unfortunately there are just too many variations.....

Sharing this with you because i don't want you to get discouraged from using CREON, but rather, do your own trial and error to figure out what works best for you and your kitty.

Olesia,

Thank you for your message. I am in touch with the other cat owner and she's so helpful. I am just continuing to try to gain intel so I do right by Rowan.

We are on Day 5 of Creon. 3K in each meal (6 meals/day - 18K daily) and things are going well, with continued weight gain and poop color back to normal. But due to a couple of factors, I'm contemplating a dose increase. He had reduced the number of times he pooped to 2 times per day when he was on powder (8 days on powder before starting Creon) and yesterday he went 3 times. May be an anomaly, but if the higher frequency sticks around, then I'm considering upping the dosage. Also, he's still eating a lot and very hungry, but he's always been a hungry cat so not sure about this as a sign.

My thoughts. (1.) The more conservative approach will be to use 1.5 3K capsules/meal, but the contents of the capsule is so small. Curious if there are tips on how to most easily split the capsule other than using a clear capsule to eyeball half in one side and half in the other. (2.) Or do you think for the 80 calories, I should go to the 6K dose? The other owner uses 5K for 60 calories.

I know it's trial an error, but I don't want to overdose and harm him, while I also don't want him to backslide from under dosing. I'd love your thoughts about this. Thank you!

i tend to be on the conservative side with meds, at least when trialing something.... so my thought would be give 1.5 capsules if you want to "up" the CREON dose a bit. See how this goes with Rowan's gut flora composition and digestive acids. if still not acceptable after a week then up to 2 capsules (CREON 6000).

As far as splitting the CREON.... the best way i know how is to open the capsule, form a little rectangle with the loose pellets (i always use a straight edge razor blade to form loose meds) and just divide in half.

If when you might want to move into CREON 10,000, please contact me privately...........

As research, for cats, the typical starting dose is 1/4 to 1/2 of a 4,000-unit capsule (or equivalent dose of other formulations) per meal. For small dogs (weighing less than 25 pounds) the typical starting dose is 1/2 to 1 full 4,000-unit capsule (or equivalent dose of other formulations) per meal.

Thank you for the information about the research and there starting dose. Which country is this research from? I'd be very interested to review the literature. Please share any links you may have. In the US, the smallest sized capsule is 3000 lipase units which is where I started and still am.

i am concerned about this post "As research, for cats, the typical starting dose is 1/4 to 1/2 of a 4,000-unit capsule (or equivalent dose of other formulations) per meal. For small dogs (weighing less than 25 pounds) the typical starting dose is 1/2 to 1 full 4,000-unit capsule (or equivalent dose of other formulations) per meal." as there is no such thing as FDA approved CREON 4000..... and certainly not produced by CREON (pancrelipase) companies. The only CREON 4000 is made by a Chinese company which we don't recommend.

Also, the posted statement for small dogs is grossly inaccurate.

Hi Olesia,

Just circling back with an update.

Rowan's stool frequency did stabilize back to 2 times per day. So on 3/30, day 7 of Creon (transitioned to Creon 3/24; started powder 3/16), since he was continuing to gain weight, I decided I should start to gradually cut down his calories, because for the past few months he's been up to 475 calories/day, which is a lot for a cat. My thinking is if he's getting enough enzymes, he should be able to still gain weight at a calorie intake of 400 calories, since before he was sick he would maintain his weight of 12.5-13 lb at 230-250 calories/day. Since dropping the calories on 3/30 (took 20 calories off meals #2-#5 meals; he eats 6 meals/day), he's been slightly losing weight. I know I shouldn't weigh him daily, but I have been and the weight gain has been gradual but steady (10.8 lb on 3/16 to 11.76 lbs. on 3/30) until the calorie drop (he's down to 11.56 lb on 4/1).

I've started to increase his dosage of Creon. As a reminder, he has been at 3K/meal. I'm upping the dose 1.5K more at each meal so he's at 4.5K/meal (2 x 80 calories + 4 x 60 calories = total of 27K per day). The other cat mom who uses Creon is at 5K for 60 calories (but her cat only eats 230 calories per day and also still uses a compounded powder syrup on her dry food), so I don't think the increase is too dramatic.

I'm hoping that this dose increase helps him more efficiently absorb nutrients, because I don't think having him eating so many calories per day is the right solution. I am thinking too much food long term could take its toll on certain organs perhaps? Though when he were in the heat of investigating the cause of the weight loss I was instructed by the internal medicine vet to let him eat as much as he wants, I can't imagine this should be the permanent safe solution. Fingers crossed that this dose increase helps!

Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you for your support!

Hi Rowan's mom and thanks for the update.

I too know you are not supposed to weight them everyday.... but....it sure is hard not too when trying to figure things out.

I agree with your upping the CREON a bit.
However, regarding the food intake.... i agree with your vet... feed them as much as they want UNTIL they gain back all their weight and then play around with the amount of food and see if you can lessen the calories or not.

One thing that everyone seems to forget is that people, dogs, cats, etc.... ALL have their own unique metabolism rates.... we are not all the same. Yes, we fit into certain ranges according to species and gender..... BUT.... that being said, even without a health condition like EPI which also plays a part in metabolism.... some need more calories to sustain while others need less.

On a personal note.... i have seen this hold true in my human family AND also in my canine family. My Izzy (female) weight 35lbs. she ate 2+1/2 times as much as my male who weight 65lbs..... and her EPI was very well managed, and my male was way more active than her, although she was active too.

I am 5' and weigh 105lbs.. and i am 70 yrs old too.... hubby is 5'11" weighs 175 and 71 yrs old.... i eat twice (or more)as much as he does. I am forever getting razed by friends and family cause i am forever stuffing something in my mouth..........

SO... although not the entire answer.... individual metabolism is a factor that shouldn't be dismissed...........if your kitty gets physically too fat... then i would be concerned, but if just solid.... i would feed what it takes to maintain. Of course, this is all just my personal opinion.............

BTW... i LOVE how you are paying such close attention to the details, weight and ration's.... excellent work!!!!!!!! Rowan is very lucky to have you as his beloved care-giver!

Did you see the phone number on your previous thread about a contact for Lypex in US