Worried

[Miley’s Mom]

Hi!

I want to first think everyone. For weeks, I have been using the website and the forum as a wealth of information as we navigate our new diagnosis!

Today I am having a really tough day, and I was hoping to get some advice.

Miley was diagnosed with EPI (TLI .8) December 8th of this year. In June she weighed 43 pounds which is her normal weight plus or minus 2 or 3 pound, depending on how much food she’s been stealing from her sister and level of activity. When we took her to get vaccinated in mid October, she weighed 40 pounds which did not concern me. However, close to Thanksgiving she started having humongous, yellow, smelly, poops 2 to 3 times a day, and I noticed her suddenly feeling very bony. When we went for a weight check on November 26 we found she was down to 35 pounds, and at that time almost immediately started to become lethargic and weak and not her hyper playful, outgoing self. I was encouraged only by the fact that she was ravenous, knocking her sister out of the way to get to her food, counter surfing for the first time ever getting into the garbage if we weren’t paying attention, even eating her own poop (this was less encouraging). At the time of her diagnosis, she weighed 33.8 pounds.

We started the first of six weekly B12 injections on December 8th and received our shipment of enzyme Diane on December 13th just in time to use it with dinner. The next morning her poop was normal! At her vet visit on the 15th she had gained half a pound!

We’ve been feeding her 3 cups of food divided over three meals a day with enzymes, increased from her normal 2 cups a day, since receiving the enzymes.

Her poop has consistently remained brown to slightly tinged, yellow, firm and creased. She has gone from pooping many multiple times a day, to her normal once, maybe twice a day. Stomach gurgling has completely stopped as has her gassiness.

Her energy levels and personality are 100% back to normal and I feel like I have my dog back.

Today we went for her weekly, B12 shot. I was so optimistic. I’m well aware it will take some time to gain the weight back, still, her haunches have felt “juicier” and even the vet and vet tech said she looked like she was starting to fill out. But when we weighed her we found she had lost the half a pound she gained the prior week.

I am heartbroken by what feels like such a huge setback. Especially because she’s been doing so well otherwise.

Has anyone else experienced this early on? Am I getting worked up over nothing? Could it be she was retaining water because of the dramatic weight loss and because she was drinking excessively because she was literally starving?

Prior to our visit today, I had actually intended to seek advice from everyone here because I had been looking at a slightly higher protein, higher fat, lower fiber food than the Purina EN we have been feeding her. Partially because of cost but also after reading many of the posts on this forum and the website.

I would love insight what to do when everything seems to be going right but the scale isn’t moving in the right direction.

Thank you for your support and wisdom!

Lainie

[Olesia711]

Hi Lainie..... thanks for writing in and i can completely understand your frustration.... but rest assured...... this is nothing to worry about

First it sounds like you are doing a really, REALLY great job with Miley!!!! If overall.... she "appears" to be doing better, then she is.... and 1/2 lb weight loss is not a big deal... Sometimes they do fluctuate for whatever reason.... and it could be nothing more than the amount or lack there of water intake....BUT... that being said....in addition.....there are multiple things going on here. For one thing, EPI dogs actually are depleted in fat soluble vitamins.... check out this research "2018 (Aug 22) EPI Vitamin Research
EPI & Fat Soluble Vitamins" on this page: https://epi4dogs.com/epi-research/

I personally like Nutramax Welactin Omega-3 Liquid Skin & Coat Supplement for Dogs
By Nutramaxalso recommend is to make sure your dog gets EFAs (essential fattys acids) or Fish oil, and/or coconut oil. I personally like Welactin .....do not get the soft gels but rather get the LIQUID (ask your vet).... or talk to your vet about a comparable EFAs for your dog.

Next... i agree 110%.... go with a higher protein food... Many of these EPI dogs simply need more!

And.... try to feed a food with normal amounts of fat, do not go with a low fat food....unless another health condition dictates the need to use a low fat diet.

Just to give you an example. My EPI gal was a 35lb Spanish water dog. She ate more than double what my 60lb active male dog ate.... when i tried to feed her what was recommended for her size, she lost wayyyyy too much weight. For her entire life of 15 years... she ate more than double what my other dogs ate ... and she was the smallest one by half!

SOOOOOOOoo... all this to say, i totally understand your worry.... but it's okay. No need to get upset and the above are a few extra tips to how to get weight on with an EPI dog

[Miley’s Mom]

Thank you so much for the quick reply and reassurance! I don’t ever remember worrying this much about my human babies! It’s so much less straight forward with the pups.

I will definitely look into the supplements!

I’ve read a lot about the ingredients found in dog foods and what to potentially avoid but it does get confusing. I know legumes are a no no. I’m attaching the ingredient details and analysis for the new food we’re considering … I’m curious about thoughts on rice, rice flour, etc.

Thank you again!
You’ve literally stopped the tears from flowing today!

[Olesia711]

Hi Lainie,

Thanks for letting us know that she was on Purina EN..... although a good food and low in fiber... the fiber is RICE... a grain... and some EPI dogs have issues with this food.....although some EPI dogs do just fine with rice (rice is the most tolerable grain for EPI dogs).... Many EPI dogs just cannot handle it because, as i am sure you have read from other posts..... fiber (grain) can destroy the efficacy of the enzymes from anywhere between 0% to 50% and we have no idea which EPI dog may be affected and if affected by what %..... SOOOOOOOooooo this is why we suggest to everyone to "start" with a grain free food (and that includes foods with rice) ... and a food that also greatly limits or avoids too many peas.

SO... i am glad you are looking at other foods.

The food you selected would be great except for the rice . Not that your dog can never have rice... as maybe she can... but that is something you can try later. For now lets try something without rice. AND........ word or warning......jsut because a food works for one EPI dog is no guarantee that it will work for all EPI dogs, but worth trying... Because of this other little detail, we also recommend when trying a different food to keep a record of ALL the ingredients (so you can cross reference with other brand ingredients if this doesn't work out.... AND.... be sure to buy the smallest bag possible... just so that you don't waste a lot of money.

Dog brands change all the time... so our favorites change too.........but our current list of favorites to try are listed here:
https://epi4dogs.com/dog-food-options/

[Eddiespaghetti]

I do love it when people report back saying their pup is responding to treatment. I remember the feeling defeated by trying everything and watching Eddie wither away.
My advice here is all anecdotal and only applies to Eddie. As Olesia mentioned, what works for one dog might not work for another. I do hope it works for you and Miley, but there is no promises.
It seems with Eddie at least, that the grain and rice aren't a problem when it's processed into kibble. Wet food when it has rice or grain is a nightmare for Eddie. I am unsure why the kibble doesn't affect him the same.
You will definitely want to follow Olesia's advice at the beginning, and once Miley id stable you can experiment with grain and kibble.
I personally had a lot of success with taste of the Wild both high prairie and Appalachian valley. He actually still gets the Appalachian valley.