Re-test B-12? Dog lost weight and not gaining back

[cjjames]

Hey guys I posted on here a little while ago after my dog Jade, who I started going on walks with again for a couple months lost a noticeable amount of weight. I believe around 10 lbs. Before EPI she was 80, then went to 45, then got back up to 75 consistently for three years before the walking.

I tried increasing the enzymes for her by a half tsp. She was only tolerating a half tsp before so now its 1 tsp. She seems to be doing ok, not throwing it up like before, however her stools are a bit looser now but not terrible.

Even with increasing enzymes she hasn't put on weight. We give her the monthly B-12 shot of the dose prescribed for maintenance. However I'm thinking the B-12 could be low again due to her not putting on weight?? I was wondering if I should re-test, and if so if there's any alternative to doing it at the vet due to how costly it is. On a tight budget but willing to do it for her.

Would love some feedback, thank you.

[jilbert57]

Yes the alternative would be to give daily B12 capsules with Intrinsic factor from Wonderlabs.
Here is a link to our information on B12 and the links to the product are there.


https://epi4dogs.com/b12-in-brief-2/

Will you refresh my memory on what food you are feeding? Are you feeding more than what the bag says for the weight in 3 or 4 meals?

Jill

[Olesia711]

IN an EPI dog..... getting low on B12 levels is certainly one of the possibilities of why she is not gaining any weight.

So yes, i would definitely increase the B12 dose/frequency. no need to retest if you don't want to, BUT give it 3 weeks to a month and assess whether the increased B12 has helped with the weight situation. The great thing about giving B12 is that if you give too much they will just pee out any excess so over-dosing is not a problem.

However, after a month if you do not see any improvement whatsoever..... then you need to look further as to what might be going on.

Be sure to keep a record/journal of the poo output cause some of the other causes, if this is EPI related, for weight loss, can be that SID/SIBO/dysbiosis is brewing out of control or that more enzymes are needed. If the problem with the enzymes is that she get regurg/reflux ... it might be that she needs an acid reflux med to help like Omeprazole so that might allow you to give her more enzymes if that turns out to be the issue.

The other enzyme possibility is that some of these dogs actually need more enzymes than before simply because they are getting older and the previous amount of enzymes just is not doing the job anymore... so more enzymes are needed.

If the extra B12 doesn't work and if it is not SID brewing and if it not that more enzymes are needed..............THEN you need to talk with your vet and look at other possibilities outside of EPI

[cjjames]

She is on natural balance limited ingredients. I fed 150% of what she normally gets for a 3 weeks and no weight increase at all--just larger stools with undigested kibble it looked like.

I think increasing the dosing is the way to go. How much should I increase the B-12 dose by? I currently give once a month. I don't want to overdo it. Should I do twice monthly to see a difference?

I believe when she first diagnosed she was given B-12 daily for some time, then once a week, then once a month for maintenance.

[jilbert57]

Extra B12 is excreted in the urine so don't worry about too much B12. I would start with 1 capsule a day and see if things change.

If you were still seeing undigested food in the poop you need to up the enymes a tad. Since you did increase to 1 teaspoon are you still seeing undigested food or just sortbof loose stools?

I would also follow Olesias SID advice.

Jill

[Eddiespaghetti]

Not knowing the flavor of kibble you are feeding. It says a 75 pound puppo should get 3-4 cups a day. If you are feeding 1.5X, you are giving a minimum of 1.5cups a meal (if 3 meals a day). So, the enzyme amount should be roughly 1.5 teaspoons. If the puppo can't handle that much, you can try a stronger enzyme and hopefully give less. Undigested food means they aren't getting the nutrients from it. While, you might be feeding 150% if they aren't getting the nutrients that can easily be why.
Undigested food also can cause the SIDs to get bad. I agree that you should also treat for that.
Edit: Re-reading my post, I want to apologize if I sounded short or judgemental. That was not my intention. I think I overcorrected on my rambling. You are doing a great job getting your pup healthy.

[cjjames]

Extra B12 is excreted in the urine so don't worry about too much B12. I would start with 1 capsule a day and see if things change.

If you were still seeing undigested food in the poop you need to up the enymes a tad. Since you did increase to 1 teaspoon are you still seeing undigested food or just sortbof loose stools?

I would also follow Olesias SID advice.

Jill

Gotcha, thank you for your comment. I'm giving shots actually which we were doing monthly. Should I do 1shot/week for a month and see what happens or you think that's too high a jump from once a month?

[cjjames]

Not knowing the flavor of kibble you are feeding. It says a 75 pound puppo should get 3-4 cups a day. If you are feeding 1.5X, you are giving a minimum of 1.5cups a meal (if 3 meals a day). So, the enzyme amount should be roughly 1.5 teaspoons. If the puppo can't handle that much, you can try a stronger enzyme and hopefully give less. Undigested food means they aren't getting the nutrients from it. While, you might be feeding 150% if they aren't getting the nutrients that can easily be why.
Undigested food also can cause the SIDs to get bad. I agree that you should also treat for that.
Edit: Re-reading my post, I want to apologize if I sounded short or judgemental. That was not my intention. I think I overcorrected on my rambling. You are doing a great job getting your pup healthy.

All good I appreciate your insight haha. I do see some undigested kibble it seems like, typically toward the end of the stool. First pieces are well formed. The end pieces that look undigested are typically yellower in color also. And do you think increasing the strength but lowering the amount would be beneficial? I give her EnzymeDiane 6x porcine enzymes and I've seen the 8x (stronger) enzyme but thought she wouldn't be able to handle it as she was barely tolerating the 1/2 tsp of the 6x enzymes for the first two years. She seems to have adapted to it now though after I've increased to 1 tsp. And will definitely look into the SID.

[Eddiespaghetti]

According to the enzyme Diane website, 1 teaspoon of the 6x equals 3/4th teaspoon of the 8x. In theory that is a 25 percent reduction in enzymes given. You might be able to give 1 teaspoon of the 8x and get rid of the undigested food. Without increasing the amount you have to give. What was thrown up when you first started giving the enzymes?
The yellow poo is probably from the SIDs starting to tear it's ugly head.

[jilbert57]

The TAMU protocol for B12 shots:

Shots: Once a week for 6 weeks then monthly until level 600 or above is reached.

For oral cobalamin supplementation:

Protocol: daily administration for a total of 12 weeks and re-check serum cobalamin concentration one week after finishing supplementation.

https://epi4dogs.com/b12-protocol/

Jill