New here and needing feeding advice

[mum2zorro]

Hello. I'm Judy, and my pup is Zorro. He is a black and white Coton de Tulear, only 15 months old, who was diagnosed last week. He's so young to have such a serious illness! (I wanted to include a photo, but since I'm technologically impaired...) His TLI was less than 1.0, and B-12 less than 1.5.


Zorro begins his B-12 injections series tomorrow. We're still waiting for the enzymes the vet ordered.

I'm having a terrible time getting him to eat at all. He was on Purina Pro Plan (chicken) puppy. When I switched him to adult food, that's when he started not wanting to eat. We moved to Lamb and rice. He ate a bit, then stopped that one too. The vet prescribed Royal Canin hydrolyzed protein. He liked it at first, but now he doesn't want that either. She said to just try to get him to eat anything. Yesterday I bought several different cans of wet food (high protein, no peas, low fiber) to have in store... Maybe to offer one if another doesn't work, etc. No luck there either. Just a bite or two.

I finally started boiling chicken and rice. He ate that and wanted more, so I gave him some pan seared chicken that I had made for myself. He had the nastiest diarrhea I've ever seen in my life! It took ages to wash it off! Today I'm offering the hydroyzed protein again.

My concern is this: When we do finally get the enzymes, if they are to be placed on kibble, and he will not eat kibble, then how will I ever get the enzymes into the dog in the first place?

I'm just heartsick that he has this, and he's still pretty much just a baby.

[Olesia711]

Hi Judy,

It is indeed devastating when you first learn that your dog has EPI..... BUT..... once you understand how to manage it, you will be amazed at how quickly your sweet puppy will bounce back and once you find the right "balance" of the recommended protocol... how well you puppy does.

First i strongly suspect the reason why Zorro keeps losing interest in all these foods is because his B12 is so low. Very glad to hear that he will be greeting his first shot tomorrow. You ought to see a change in his eating habit shortly.... at the latest within 3 weeks.

Also.... i have a question for you. Why did your vet put Zorro on Hydrolyzed food..... is it because your vet suspects a foo allergy or suspects possible IBD along with th EPI ????? Or did your vet prescribe the hydrolyzed food thinking this was IBD BEFORE receiving the confirmation that this is EPI????

Next, your question about the enzymes. If you are feeding dry kibble, you will need to moisten the kibble so that the powdered enzymes have something to stick to. Mix the powdered enzymes in the food and wait 20 minutes, then mix again and serve.

if Zorro decides he doesn't like to eat food with the enzymes... we have lots of tips and tricks to over come this.... so it shouldn't be a problem... We will help you step by step. Or you can just include some canned food with the dry food... or some REAL baked meat, sardines, or something with the kibble.

In any case..... we will help you navigate any EPI issues that you might have trouble with.
Feel free to ask any other questions!

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Hi Judy, and welcome. I'm sorry you need to be here, but things will be OK. Breathe. We've all been where you are, and we understand.

In my experience, every time Tucker ate, before enzymes, his poo was yellow & nasty. The enzymes will help with that. Is the vet having to order them for you? If it is expected to take awhile, you can go to a health food store & pick some up. They will not do the job, long term, but they might help a little bit.

Here are some suggestions from the Managing EPI page. https://epi4dogs.com/emergency-enzymes/

You might want to search around the website, for additional information. Also, reading the signatures at the bottom of posts can show you what has worked for others.

Really, you guys will be OK. --Pam

[Tuckaboo Pam]

OLESIA---Is my suggestion appropriate for a dog that has not taken enzymes, at all? Or, are emergency enzymes only for dogs already stabilized?

[Eddiespaghetti]

I am not Olesia obviously, but I would say any enzymes are better than none. Though if the vet is going to take a while you can order some from Amazon and possibly get them next day.
https://www.amazon.com/Pan-tenex-10x-Di ... 173&sr=8-6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08SQH92Z5/re ... Bfc2hhcmVk
I have used both of these and know they work. The second one smells horrid though.
I do concur the lack of appetite is from the low B12. I was going to respond BEFORE Olesia but I was nauseous and had to nap
I always say EPI is a stupid disease. It's not a devastating disease or a life threatening one it's just stupid. Not being able to give them a random piece of pepperoni is just dumb.
The issue now is; without enzymes Zorro is basically passing whatever goes in, out. Which in terms causes an overgrowth of bacteria in the intestines. But of these are causing yucky poops. What you can do know to help, until you get enzymes, is give low fat food. Since EPI dogs have a hard time breaking down fat and carbs, you want to reduce it as much as you can. This is only until you get enzymes. After the enzymes are there you want to switch to low fiber/grain free food.

[mum2zorro]

Hi Judy,

It is indeed devastating when you first learn that your dog has EPI..... BUT..... once you understand how to manage it, you will be amazed at how quickly your sweet puppy will bounce back and once you find the right "balance" of the recommended protocol... how well you puppy does.

Thank you, Olesia. I'm feeling pretty desperate for some encouragement at this point.

First i strongly suspect the reason why Zorro keeps losing interest in all these foods is because his B12 is so low. Very glad to hear that he will be greeting his first shot tomorrow. You ought to see a change in his eating habit shortly.... at the latest within 3 weeks.

I really hope so!

Also.... i have a question for you. Why did your vet put Zorro on Hydrolyzed food..... is it because your vet suspects a foo allergy or suspects possible IBD along with th EPI ????? Or did your vet prescribe the hydrolyzed food thinking this was IBD BEFORE receiving the confirmation that this is EPI????

Initially the problem was not diarrhea. (His stools were fine!) It was anorexia and some vomiting. I kept dragging him in. They did some basic blood work and could find nothing objectively wrong, so she supposed that perhaps it was a food sensitivity. I think this is why she offered the hydrolyzed protein. It was only when he threw up three times in one morning last week that I brought him in again, asking, "I really, really need to know what is making this dog sick," that she offered to run a specific GI panel... with the unexpected outcome.

Next, your question about the enzymes. If you are feeding dry kibble, you will need to moisten the kibble so that the powdered enzymes have something to stick to. Mix the powdered enzymes in the food and wait 20 minutes, then mix again and serve.


if Zorro decides he doesn't like to eat food with the enzymes... we have lots of tips and tricks to over come this.... so it shouldn't be a problem... We will help you step by step. Can't tell you how good this is to hear! Or you can just include some canned food with the dry food... or some REAL baked meat, sardines, or something with the kibble.

In any case..... we will help you navigate any EPI issues that you might have trouble with.
Feel free to ask any other questions!

Thank you, from the bottom of my heart!

[mum2zorro]

Hi Judy, and welcome. I'm sorry you need to be here, but things will be OK. Breathe. We've all been where you are, and we understand.

Oh yeah. Breathing! I've been pretty much holding my breath. I'm so glad there are others who understand!

In my experience, every time Tucker ate, before enzymes, his poo was yellow & nasty. The enzymes will help with that. Is the vet having to order them for you? If it is expected to take awhile, you can go to a health food store & pick some up. They will not do the job, long term, but they might help a little bit.

The vet ordered them, but they're taking forever. I "cheated" and ordered the enzymes diane with express shipping, but will need some clarity on the dosing if they arrive before those that the vet orders.

Here are some suggestions from the Managing EPI page. https://epi4dogs.com/emergency-enzymes/

You might want to search around the website, for additional information. Also, reading the signatures at the bottom of posts can show you what has worked for others.

Really, you guys will be OK. --Pam

Thanks, Pam. I appreciate the encouragement!

[mum2zorro]

I am not Olesia obviously, but I would say any enzymes are better than none. Though if the vet is going to take a while you can order some from Amazon and possibly get them next day.
https://www.amazon.com/Pan-tenex-10x-Di ... 173&sr=8-6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08SQH92Z5/re ... Bfc2hhcmVk
I have used both of these and know they work. The second one smells horrid though.
I do concur the lack of appetite is from the low B12. I was going to respond BEFORE Olesia but I was nauseous and had to nap
I always say EPI is a stupid disease. It's not a devastating disease or a life threatening one it's just stupid. Not being able to give them a random piece of pepperoni is just dumb.
The issue now is; without enzymes Zorro is basically passing whatever goes in, out. Which in terms causes an overgrowth of bacteria in the intestines. But of these are causing yucky poops. What you can do know to help, until you get enzymes, is give low fat food. Since EPI dogs have a hard time breaking down fat and carbs, you want to reduce it as much as you can. This is only until you get enzymes. After the enzymes are there you want to switch to low fiber/grain free food.

Thanks, Eddiespaghetti. The vet also suspects that the low appetite is from low B-12 so hopefully he will perk up once he gets the B-12 going in. She also prescribed an appetite stimulant just to get him to eat. Oddly enough, his poops were just fine. It has been his lack of appetite and sometimes vomiting that was the issue (at least until he had two bites of rich food and then I loaded him up with chicken and rice last night..and THEN the horrid diarrhea. But not usually.

He used to eat Purina Pro Plan for puppies, chicken flavor. This whole picky eating thing started on the day that I moved him to the adult version and let him try beef. He sorted out the beef kibbles from the others and it was all downhill after that. Today I wondered if he could simply return to the Purina Pro Plan for small breeds (adults) with the same chicken protein. Thankfully he went for it. I've yet to see him poop tho.

[Eddiespaghetti]

A lot of us use enzyme Diane over the vet stuff. The typical dosage for the 6X is 1 teaspoon per cup of kibble. You can always experiment with more or less depending on what you see.

[Olesia711]

Hi Judy,

Thanks for answering my question about the hydrolyzed food... sounds like your vet was trying it in case there was a sensitivity to a protein.... which was the right thing to do.

SO.....Zorro may not have any sensitivities and may not need to be on hydrolyzed food... or he may actually have some sort of sensitivity to something, whether it is beef (like in the new food you tried) ... OR.... it could be some minor non-protein ingredient that was in the new food that triggered the awful response..... OR..... the new food that you tried could have be "tainted" as we are now saying if you open up a new bag of dog food and the dog doesn't want to eat it or gets sick... DO NOT give it anymore, but rather write down the lot #, report it to your vet and the dog food company and try another food.

As of your most recent post... it sounds like you went back to a chicken based food and Zorro (so far) is doing fine. If he is doing fine on it stick with it. HOWEVER.... once you implement the enzymes, please do try to continue with this food "Purina Pro Plan for small breeds (adults) with the same chicken protein" but watch his poos closely over the next week after starting enzymes. Look for poos possible going sloppy/loose.
The reason why i am stating it this way is because when an EPI dog is on enzymes, the fiber content in the food (if too high) can inhibit the efficacy of the enzymes from anywhere between 0% to 50%.... if and when this happens, diarrhea/loose stools happen. The problem is that we have no idea which dog is affected by high fiber content and by how much.....if at all. Some dogs will develop loose stools, others remain perfectly fine. SOOOOOOOOooooooo try using the same food, but if loose stools happen once you start the enzymes.... then you will have to change a food with less fiber content in it and or with no grain.

Just so that you don't end up beating your head against the wall in total confusion about this food or that food.....you might want to start keeping an EPI journal and write down what you are feeding and what if any adverse reactions you are seeing. this will help both you and your vet notice if there are any food sensitivities and if so what they might be .
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/