New to EPI and need to advise

[Olesia711]

ahhhh..... it could be the inulin ... (good catch/mention Jill!!!!) For years now research has recommended inulin (chicory) as a prebiotic to help with gut flora .... well... surprise, surprise.......2024 research came out now claiming that inulin can actually increases inflammation ..... unfortunately it is included in many, many dog food products. i read about this earlier this year, but i opted NOT to post about it just yet, because i am waiting for more research to substantiate this... but since you mentioned that Poppy doesn't do well with inulin.... here is some research to support this:
https://news.weill.cornell.edu/news/202 ... flammation

[KASIAKASIA]

Its a long story but I will try to keep it short, so my daughter was always struggling with allergies (various reactions on the skin, diarrhoea, extreme egzema). The allergy tests never showed anything, she had skin and blood tests too, couple of times. Someone mentioned sensitivity tests and it worked, showed me what to avoid (red and orange reaction). We changed her diet accordingly to the results and she got better within days. Unfortunately the body eventually had enough of the new stuff and again decides to reject it. Let say cows milk was replaced by goat milk and she eventually developed sensitivity to goats milk. So we did the tests again. Since she was a little baby until 11 y old.
Coming back to the dog now. The vet recommended doing allergy tests for Poppy (£££££££££) and I thought about doing sensitivity testing for Poppy and over the years we needed to change the proteins (from chicken to beef, then lamb, etc but usually proteins were everything not agreeing with her), until the latest one which showed stuff which is “included” in prebiotics, I recall inulin, soy something but there were some other things too,
I ordered new kit and I will send it tomorrow to see if anything changed.
It sounds ridiculous (according to my daughter’s doctor) but it worked for out daughter and Poppy too

[KASIAKASIA]

Interesting link, I never paid any attention in understanding the difference between probiotics and prebiotics and I was putting all in a one bag until I got Poppy’s results back. She definitely doesn’t handle well prebiotics or at least “some ingredients” companies use. From my little research after using pro and prebiotics for a good few weeks without any improvement and more pooooooo coming (at the time when we decided to avoid prebiotics and if necessary use only probiotics) understood that prebiotics made in laboratories are BAD even though everywhere online and researches say ITS THE THING BEST YOU CAN GIVE IT TO YOUR DOG! Maybe just Poppy stomach is sensitive to it and we were unlucky, however probiotics work well with her.
We did check in summer in Poland bile acid level (blood test) and it was right in the middle.
It looks like she is agreeing with the new food. Only 2x, but very soft not large in size (not diarrhoea though)
New kibble contains prebiotics too

[Olesia711]

Hi KAsia... very interesting with your daughter..... ... they are actually recently discovering that although true allergies are rare in dogs (supposedly) but dogs DO have "sensitivities"... Dr. Jean Dodds here in the USA has a pretty decent test kit for sensitivities.... sometimes i think the problem is too much of a certain an ingredient... and more often than not, it is a minor ingredient included in the food, like what you mentioned, such as the prebiotics inulin, soy, etc. We had an EPi parent that it took over 2 years to figure out what the ingredient was... and it was sunflower oil that was included in some foods.

Anyway... i have always been told that the "allergy" tests are grossly inaccurate UNLESS the results come back and a result is really, really high... then you can safely say that dog has that allergy. For example, my non-EPI dog was eating herself raw... it was awful. i was convinced it was mold/environmental because it was worse in the spring and fall. SO we did an allergy test. anything over 100 and supposedly the dog was allergic to it. My vet laughed at that and he said, lets jsut wait and see, but don't think your dog has an allergy even if a result comes back at 300. SOoooo we got the results... my poo dog had a severe allergy to storage mites!!! her test result was 4,000 !!!!! My vet said, OMG.. she truly does have an allergy to storage mites... and we proceeded to treat her, (mostly successful) going forward .

That's my personal story on allergy testing.... it does have it's place but you have to be realistic about the results.

For a prebiotic without unwanted stuff in it..... can you access Slippery Elm powder? it works as a prebiotic and has nothing else in it.

[KASIAKASIA]

Little update about Poppy, we just started 4th day on new kibble (Hill’s) and when it comes to it’s better than on Brit but still not perfect. There is always one bigger and softer in the morning (first pooh of the day), she will do 3 a day but the dodgy one is huge, other two smaller and in good shape. She also looks “smaller” when it comes to her rib cage (as on Brit she looked sometimes like she swallowed a ballon). And definitely she doesn’t drink so much water.

Im still waiting for the sensitive test results.
I also ordered B12 you recommended, it arrived two days ago (from Chemeyes or something like that, there was a link for the UK)
At the moment she is only getting kibble and enzymes. 4meals a day (she got used to the timing as if I don’t give her food on time (every 4 hours) she goes to the kitchen and barks
Weight remain the same 5.6kg and she is active, playful and always ready for whatever the day brings. Apart from going out when it’s raining
She didn’t have any B12, B9, probiotics and no prebiotics, no slippery elm.

Now, my questions:
1) For now I think I will keep her on new kibble and see how it goes. What do you think?
2) B12, shall I start giving it to her? (she didn’t have any for the last couple of days). I will use the one you recommended.
3) Slippery elm, yes or not? What do you recommend?
4) Dodgy ? Should I just accept that I will be getting a dodgy one a day? Or add more enzymes? Slippery elm, perhaps in the evening to see what is going to happen? My husband says that Im mad and I should just accept it rather than stress myself and the dog.
I can take a picture tomorrow morning to show you the dodgy one.
Its like a poop saga, can’t believe that we talk about it all over again and again

What do you guys recommend?

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Kasia---

On this forum we are all poop officianados. It's a fact of life.

B12---I'd give it daily. EPI dogs need to be above normal, and if it's more than they need they poo it out.

ALL EPI dogs have SID, so I'd be giving slippery elm twice a day, without fail. It may make all the difference in that big morning poo. You may also add a good probiotic. I'm not sure what's available in the UK, but I use Proviable. You always start with less than the recommended amount of probiotic, and build up over a week or so. In the meantime, since you have the slippery elm, start with less than the recommended amount, twice a day. You should see results in 4-5 days. If not, then it's not going to do the trick & there are other things to try.

YEA for your energetic doggy! Yep, rain is an issue here, too.

Take Care---Pam

[KASIAKASIA]

Thanks Pam for your reply. I was giving her B12 and slippery elm and probiotics then I stopped first probiotics, then slippery elm and eventually B12 to see if her poops will get better. Then as Olesia recommended I changed her kibble for one with hydrolysed protein. It is better aparat from the morning one. Now Im wondering if I should add back B12 and slippery elm and probiotics

[KASIAKASIA]

Have her results back and to make things more complicated it showed red reaction for lactobacillus acidophilus (which from
my little knowledge is a probiotic). Im assuming that her body was overloaded with it like previously with probiotics
What sort of probiotics would you recommend for her without lactobacillus acidophilus?

[Tuckaboo Pam]

I have given probiotics, but never religiously. I am also a firm believer in food sensitivities, since a student in my class was taken off cow's milk & his bevior changed completely.

I have also learned on the forum that some EPI dogs to poorly eating poultry. This may not apply, but I'm throwing it out there anyway!

[KASIAKASIA]

Hi everyone,
I will be taking Poppy to the new vet today and I will ask him for the blood tests. So B12, folic acid, TLi for sure. Is there anything else I should ask for?