Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Lolly
Member
Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Xena

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Lolly » 29 Oct 2024, 03:19

PS I did order Raw Pancreas. Maybe Xena is one that will do better on that. My Vet did tell me the only other dog he had with EPI belonged to a butcher (lucky dog!) and he fed him raw pancreas and he flourished.

Eddiespaghetti
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Posts: 452
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Eddie
My name: Jeremy

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Eddiespaghetti » 29 Oct 2024, 13:49

I haven't seen it mentioned here, but you can try a topper. I have been using them to get Eddie to eat for a while. He used to get a lot of medications and it was always easier to hide them.
https://a.co/d/h9vB3LA
This one is a variety pack. Maybe they will love one of them.
https://a.co/d/2kOb2UR
Simple broth that Eddie loves.

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Patsy
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Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Patsy » 29 Oct 2024, 16:25

I know how you feel . Years ago my dog suffered the same as yours. My vet had never seen anything like this before but did his own research.
He decided to keep things simple and first treat the most dangerous symptoms.
This was the ascites that was pressing on her pleural cavity holding her lungs and heart. Epi wasn’t killing her. Because albumin was leaked into her blood, fluid was leaking everywhere. This is called Protein Losing Enteropathy. He treated with steroids , B12 injections and a very low fat diet .
When you had three blood tests did they mention any problems with albumin? What about liver and kidney functions?

Make sure she is drinking, and maybe feed her home cooked white fish / chicken breast and a little sweet potato and broccoli. No added fats.
Slippery elm is ok and enzymes, but my vet said to not worry about the guts yet. I know how ill she is, so let her rest and be loved and get the ascites away.
If the blood tests showed other issues, are they being seen to ?
Hugs to both of you xx
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

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Lolly
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Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Xena

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Lolly » 29 Oct 2024, 18:18

Patsy,
That is exactly what she is low in. Her Albumin is 1.2 g/dL. Do you remember what your dogs was?

He did talk to me about that. Her liver and kidney functions were normal. She was on steroids previously and he didn't start them back up. She did get a B12 shot today.

I will start walking her more. Haven't been doing that!

Thank you!!!!!!

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Montgomery
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Posts: 444
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Montgomery » 29 Oct 2024, 19:18

My veterinarian had been in practice nearly three decades when she met Montgomery. He was the first case of EPI she had ever seen in practise. She was the one who ended up diagnosing Montgomery, though, and it was at their first meeting. The veterinarian she bought the clinic from, who had been in practice since 1979, had no clue what to do with my little Spitfire. Neither had the three other veterinarians he had also seen, including an old-fashioned country veterinarian who had also been in practice for decades. It's so hit and miss. I'm glad it's uncommon, but it's frustrating at the same time. Who else has been told by their veterinarian that, "You know more than I do at this point?"
I will say, a good veterinarian is one that will learn what they do not know, so that they can best help their patient. If you have a veterinarian who will go to the textbooks, you've got a good veterinarian.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He is SUPPOSED to be eating a home-cooked diet, but refuses. He eats Purina True Instinct Grain-Free Chicken and whatever chicken-based tinned food we can entice him with. Nine pounds of pure stubbornness. He gets two size 0 capsules of Enzyme Diane at each meal and one size 4 capsule of Tylosin three times daily. Sometimes he gets Petromalt. He's our little Spitfire, and when he purrs you KNOW he's got a real Merlin engine. Lately, he's taken to giving hugs. His hobbies include shooting marbles, shredding cardboard, and irritating his sister.

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Lolly
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Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Xena

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Lolly » 29 Oct 2024, 19:53

Patsy,

I wish I knew how to post her Labs here.

Other things that were low...
CA 7.3 mg/dl
CREA .04 mg//dL
GLOB 2.3 g/dL
TP 3.5 g/dL

Everything else in normal range. Of course her B12 was low at 170. And her TLI was 1.7.

Folate was ok at 9.1.

Thyroid Normal

I am just happy I talked them in to a B12 shot today.

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Lolly
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Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Xena

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Lolly » 29 Oct 2024, 19:57

Yes I went to 3 Vets before Xena was diagnosed and one was a GI specialist. Go figure! The Vet I go to for everything else diagnosed her. He had seen it once before. But he would like me to find a Vet that knows more than he does. He is a good guy.

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Lolly
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Posts: 18
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Xena

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Lolly » 29 Oct 2024, 19:57

I just want her to eat. Really I would sleep so much better at night if she would eat.

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Patsy
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Posts: 279
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Patsy » 29 Oct 2024, 20:10

The B12 regime is one injection daily for 7 days then once a week for 6 weeks .
It’s the same for humans , mine had dropped to 190 . Another suggest ion for your vet !
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Losing Hope for Xena. Trying Panzquin.

Post by Olesia711 » 30 Oct 2024, 15:26

hi Xena's mom...... catching up here.... so glad Patsy chimed in and shared her experience with you. I did not realize that Xena was fighting low Albumin.... like Patsy said that's PLE. We have an entire section on that here
https://epi4dogs.com/ple/
... and as Patsy explained... THAT is was what her vet gave preferential treatment to over EPI.

WHen a dog has PLE, the first thing you want to do is restrict fat from the diet- -even try an ultra low fat diet..........and then, my understanding is prednisone with an antibiotic (it used to be Metronidazole- - not sure if this is still the main protocol but... jsut want to say, even though we strongly advise against giving Metro with an EPI dogs.. if you are battling a life threatening situation like some cases of PLE can be....and if Metro is what the vet recommends... then that is what should be used.).... so.....as i remember from a few years ago.... this is the first line of defense... ..however..... the PLE protocol may have since changed........

Again, my heart goes out to you dealing with this.... i hope the raw pancreas works.... and please keep us posted.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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