Question about Slippery Elm and poo

[Cheb1313!]

Hi All .

I thought I had cracked it with Alfie. we haven't gone backwards that much just when I thought I was going forwards I havent .

2 days ago we had Diarrhea, which was full on 15 minutes after eating it only happed for one day though where we are at the moment .

When he was first diagnosed the vet put him on a week course of Metro as he had blood in his poo, last week was the first week off Metro and I was wondering how he was going to be :

He is on 4 meals per day alternating from Basa fish Fillet and handful of Spinach and 3/4 cup taste of the wild high prairie and 1 cup of Kangaroo mince with high Priarie.
he was on 1 tablet Creon 25000 which I have now upped to 1 and 1/4 .

His poo in the evening is always pretty good and has been at a 2.

Morning Poos are a different story - the first one is a 2-3 and is massive followed by a second one that is softer followed by a third that's not diarrhea but has no shape to it . it stay firmish in the hand but definalet leaves residue on the ground

I started on slippery elm 1 and a half days ago ( I know that's not long but if slippery Elm is going to improve the poo how long does it take? - Since the slippery elm ( he is on 1/4 teaspoon and I am going to up it to 1/2 ) to start working if its going to work or ... It it perfectly normal for dogs like this to have some poos good and others not so good ?.

Since he has been on the slippery elm for the short time , I have not heard any gurgles in his belly

I was always told that even dogs without this there first poo can be good and second soft .

I don't think it is the diet as he seems to be doing pretty well on the food, has no Hotspots or itches really and he is loving it .. one note is I live in Australia and we can get Tylan over here but its 100s of dollars, we can get Oxytetracycline.

I was thinking if the slipper elm works great , but if not some people have said a Probiotic as well as a pre-biotic

Should we go down that route first before low grade antibiotics - He has put on weight is full of beams in his self and eating well

[Tuckaboo Pam]

It can be so discouraging at first, when you are trying to figure out what works best for your very unique doggy (they are all different). You will know within a few days if the slippery elm is going to work. Make sure you are dosing a little under the recommended amount at first & build up. The dosage chart is for twice a day.

This sounds like SID, which can show up just when you think the enzymes are gonna do it. SID is present in all EPI dogs, it just doesn't always show up.

Can you get Tylan in Australia? I'm thinking the answer is no, but I believe Olesia has another suggestion. She'll check in, before long. OOPS just re-read, and I think the second drug you mentioned is what I've seen Olesia suggest.

https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/

The metro is hard on the gut, so best not to give any more of that. You may want to slowly introduce a good probiotic, too. Take Care---Pam

[Olesia711]

hi Cheryl,

If slippery elm is going to work, you should see some improvement within 3 days after trying slippery elm.. If you do not see ANY improvement at all.... after 3 days.... then it's not going to work.

Next.... if the slippery elm fails.... then next step is to try a pre+probiotic- -which, if this is going to work, then you should see some sort of improvement within 5 days to a week... if you see absolutely no improvement what so ever... then this too is not going to work... in which case...since you are in AUS.... go ahead and ask for a course of Oxytetracycline.

However....... IMHO.... even though you think he is doing great on the food you are feeding him..... it still may be the underlying issue as to why he is having dysbiosis. i personally would try a trial with the food before trying the Oxytetracycline... just to see if the food might be the culprit.

Since you are currently feeding: "He is on 4 meals per day alternating from Basa fish Fillet and handful of Spinach and 3/4 cup taste of the wild high prairie and 1 cup of Kangaroo mince with high Priarie".

Try giving him ONLY Basa fish fillet with spinach for just a couple of days.... watch the poos... see if they improve. If they do... then it is something in the current kibble that is NOT optimally agreeing. Then try giving him just the taste of the wild high prarie kibble for a few days....... no basa fish fillet, kangaroo mince or spinach ..... see if this makes his poos better or worse.... if worse... then it is the kibble and you just need to find a different kibble. If the poos are fine on just the kibble... THEN try feeding him just kangaroo mince for a couple of days to see if this is the underlying culprit..

If any of the above food scenarios jsut all produce sloppy stools.... then just get a script for Oxytetracycline

[Cheb1313!]

Thanks Olesia and Pam

It it normal to have good poos in the afternoon / evening and not in the morning ?,

We are only on our second day of slippery elm so I will see how he goes today and tomorrow

[Chance]

Slippery elm can vary from one dog to the next. Sometimes people see improvement that same day. Others, it can take a couple of days.

You are feeding 4 meals per day. I assume your Creon dose is the same for each of the 4 meals? And is the food the same for each of the 4 meals?

If food does vary from one meal to the next, then make note of what meals have what, and when poops are better/worse. Spinach is good, but it can be higher I'm fiber. So if some meals have more or less of that, it can change the poops.

You may be dealing with SID/SIBO, but if evening poops are always perfect, I'm not sure. My experience with SID is that poops are either all bad, or at least inconsistent.

IF Slippery elm doesn't help, and each meal is consistent with fiber content, then you might want to try increasing the enzymes to 1.5 capsules.

[Cheb1313!]

Hi

Yes the Creon dose is the same - he is on Creon25000 and he did start on 1 tablet and that has been upped to 1 and 1/4 .

He has that with everyone one of his 4 meals.

Tonight poo was a 2 - perfect but the evening ones are always like that - I wonder if its because the slippery elm and the Creon are given during the day where as over night he goes 11 hours without eating - The morning ones have always been bigger an worse - We have had a couple of belches tonight but no rumbly belly

[Cheb1313!]

Does anyone have any advice on what is a good Probiotic that you can get here in Aus?

[Olesia711]

not sure about what probiotics that are available in AUS.... but what you might want to do is look at the ingredients and portions in Proviable AND Visbiome and see if you can compare that to what is available in AUS..... or.... just ask your vet what they recommend.

Or... look for something with: Saccharomyces Boulardii in it. This seems to work with a lot of our dogs...not all... but a lot of them.

One of the OTC product that also appears to work well with some of our dogs is Vetri-Science Mega Probiotics..... this can be ordered from Amazon.

The problem with ALL the probiotics is that they are all created and sold to the masses as "one-size-fits-all"
Well............ our dogs gut flora are not all the same... they are all unique... so this is why some of the supposedly wonderful probiotics, no matter how good or how expensive a brand is... it may or may not agree with your dog's unique gut flora. My personal limit is to try a maximum of 5 different brand.. if none work... then... forget trying probiotics.... try something else.... usually Tylan or a macrolide antibiotic is Tylan is not availabe

[Greyden]

Hi
You are getting great advice here.
I believe you can get Visbiome in Australia. Ask your vet or search online for it. There are people versions and pet versions - in the US the people version is cheaper, can be ordered without prescription AND both have the same formulation. We used Visbiome early on with Dot and it was a great help. We now use Purina Forti-Flora. If Purina is available in Australia then I would think Forti-Flora would be also.

All that being said - follow Olesia's plan first. She knows ....
Good Luck - keep at it - it's a process - every pup is different but you are at the right place to help you get it figured out.

[Cheb1313!]

Thanks .

I am going to give it another day on the slippery Elm that will bring us up to 3 days , and if not I will go to Chemist warehouse at he weekend and ask the pharmacist
Just where the poo is concerned though .

I have uploaded pictures of last nights and this mornings poos.

Is this what to normally expect ?

Alfie Evening Poo 7.11.docx

(159.87 KiB) Downloaded 116 times

Alfie first morning poo 8.11.jpg (186.2 KiB) Viewed 17921 times

Alfie second morning poo 8.11.jpg (182.09 KiB) Viewed 17921 times