Switching from canned food to raw

[Atagrl66]

Previously I wrote a long message only to have it deleted. So this message will most likely be shorter. So frustrating.

I have 10yr old yorkie, schnauzer, mini pin mix who weight 12.5lbs

Approx 4 years ago she was diagnosed with EPI was put on Pancreved Enzyme powder now she's on Pan=tenex. She would go a few month eating fine then she'd stop eating. Changed her food thinking the was food that was bothering her. Fast forward to Aug 2024 she was found to have IBD. Put her on Hill's Digestive Care (canned food) (I know its crap) Vit B12 shots, and a slow release steroid. She's been doing good except she eats 4-5 meals per day. Poops are good.

I started to research RAW feeding as I want to get her off of this crap food in hopes it would decrease her meals per day. 3 weeks ago I started her on 80-10-10 along with a probiotic and enzyme powder. She stated at 1/4tsb raw with her canned food and now she's up to approx 1 ounce per meal. She's tolerating it very well but my question is with her appetite how can she survive on only 2-2.5% of raw per day? I read on this site that it may not be advisable to give enzyme powder in every meal as it states on the container. I have also researched possibly giving her raw pancreas in place of the enzymes as well as green tripe for nutrient value but do not want to add a bunch of different things at once. It should be noted she does not do well with white me or chicken and that's why I started with the 80-10-10.


Any suggestions or experience with this would be greatly appreciated.

[jilbert57]

Hi. The enzymes are dosed per amount of food. So if you feed 1 cup canned its usually 3/4 t enzyme per 1 cup canned or raw incubated. Kibble is 1 teaspoon enzyme per 1 cup kibble incubated with a little room temperature water.
On raw you usually feed 2- 3% of their bodyweight. Is he underweight? If so you might go to 3.5 to 4% of bodyweight.

Jill

[Olesia711]

Hi,

When feeding raw with an EPI dog, start with approximately 4% of its weight.... and adjust if need be. Some EPI dogs simply require more food than most..
We have this information on our Diet page: https://epi4dogs.com/diet-raw-home-prepared-recipes/

How much to feed ???

Dogs that are fed HOME-MADE or RAW should get 1% to 3% of their weight. With EPI dogs, start with 4% of their weight. For example, if your EPI dogs weighs 78lbs…. then in the beginning of treating EPI start with a calculation of:

78lbs x 0.04 = 3.12
3.12 x 16 ounces = 49.92 ounces per day

If you find that your best friend is starting to get more than a little pleasantly plump… try backing down on the amount to something like 3% of their weight:

78lbs x 0.03 = 2.34
2.34 x 16 ounces = 37.44 ounces per day

“Since raw food is harder to measure by the cup since the densities of different meat/bones will require different levels of enzymes, it is easiest to go by weight rather than amount! ” To add the enzymes, you can either puree a portion of the raw meat and add the enzymes to that pureed slurry and pour over the remainder of the raw food, let sit for 20 minutes and serve, or you can add the enzymes to something like yogurt/kefir and either add to the food as mentioned above, or serve the enzymed slurry first ahead of the meal.

Also.... with EPI dogs they need to have enzymes included with every meal.... whether raw, home-prepared or commercial. The interesting thing about raw though is that raw meat does has natural enzymes in it.....certainly not enough to sustain an EPI dog's condition... so enzymes are still always needed....but the food might be a wee bit better absorbed .

So sorry you wrote a long post and then it disappeared on you... that has happened to me too and it sure is frustrating!!!!

[Atagrl66]

Hi Jill!

Thanks for your reply. Currently, Raider is getting 1/4tsp of enzyme powder in about 1/2 to 3/4 cup of food per meal which includes her raw. She eats 5x per day and she is getting about 2.5 cups total. Hill's feeding chart states approximately 1 can per day for a 15lb dog. Due to EPI I am assuming this is why she's hungry so often. Will enzymes increase of decrease appetite based on amount given?

I am still uncertain or somewhat confused on how my dog would get enough food only eating 2.5 to 3% raw? She's always weighed about 12-13lbs so I don't think she under weight.

Melanie

[Olesia711]

Hi Melanie,

sounds like you are giving her the right amount of enzymes... as Jill mentioned, with (wet food) home-made or raw or commercial, the starting level is 3/4 tsp per 1 cup of food.

so for enzymes at:
1/2 cup of food, give 1/4 tsp of enzymes
3/4 cup of food, give 1/2 tsp of enzymes

And as far as feeding raw food. according to my calculations (unless my math is wrong)
0.04 x13lbs = 0.52
0.52 x 16 oz = 8.32

SO Raider would require at a minimum 8.32 ounces of raw food a day
However, being an EPI dog..... although i would start with this calculation.... i would watch Raider's weight carefully for a week or two and if you see her losing weight.... increase the amount of food byat least half (add another 4 oz a day) and see if that levels her out.

MAny times these EPI dogs simply require more food than a non-EPI dog at the same weight level.

I hope this helps.

[Atagrl66]

Thank you Olesia. This is so helpful,


A couple of more questions. My dog is very picky and will not eat dripping wet or slop food. How else would I be able to get the enzymes in her raw food and does the Raw have to be room temperature? If she's only getting 4% of raw would that be enough for her being she is eating 5x per day? It's been 3 weeks since I introduced the raw and she' s getting 1 ounce with each meal. By your calculations Raider weighs 12.5lbs x 0.04=.5 So that's 5 oz per day? If she is eating 4-5 times a day that's only 1oz per meal. Am I calculating that right? If that's correct she would starve only getting 1 oz per meal.

I just saw your email on the feeding amount as that makes more since than what I came up with. I think I missed a step in my calculations. Based on what I am feeding her the 1/4 tsp has been correct. Orginally we were giving her 1/2 tsp but my vet said that giving two much enzyme can make them not want to eat so we have stuck with the 1/4 tsp.

Would you remove the can food at this point and just try the raw? I am concerned how to prepare it because as I stated above Raider will not eat mushy or slop food.

Thank Melanie

[Atagrl66]

It also mentions in raw feeding that EPI dogs should also have fat unless other they have other issues. Raider also has IBD so I am assuming that fats would not be good for her? I know she sensitive to dairy as well.

Any suggestions on this?

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Hi Melanie.

I read this on your first post: " I read on this site that it may not be advisable to give enzyme powder in every meal as it states on the container."

And I just want to reiterate what Olesia included in her answer. Enzymes must be included with every meal. I do cheat a little on treats sometimes.---Pam

[jilbert57]

Hi Melanie, If you can find the passage

" it may not be advisable to give enzyme powder in every meal as it states on the
container"

we would appreciate being to correct that statement.
As Olesia and Pam say enzymes beed to be given with ALL food whether in a meal or as a treat.

Thank you!

Jill

[Atagrl66]

Thank you for all the responses, this has been very helpful.

I just want to clarify I have always given my dog enzyme powder on every meal as long as she’s had this diagnosis.

I’ll go back and find where I found the information to make sure didn’t misinterpret.

Any suggestions on how to mix Raw with enzyme powder with making it like slop? My dog refuses to eat runny wet or slop food? ( She definitely a princess)