Re: Newly diagnosed Pug
Posted: 30 Dec 2018, 15:57
Hi Joe and Ingrid,
So sorry to hear that Shadow has EPI, but please know, we will help you figure out what adjustments are needed to get Shadow to optimally respond to the EPi treatment.
#1 Get a different food. If you can get a refund that would be great. Unfortunately too much fiber can great inhibit the enzyme activity of the pancreatic enzymes that EPI dogs need to survive. It can mess up the efficacy from anywhere between 0% to 50%.... and we just don't know from one dog to the next, but the result is bad stools, gastro issues
Just a FYI.... the food you are currently feeding has a lot of (no offense) crap in it AND the fiber content is extraordinarily high.
(See below in red)
What you might want (initially) is middle of the road food that has a low fiber content usually something with 4% or less..., preferably made with sweet potato or potato or tapioca... initially try to avoid foods made with grain AND stay away from foods that use multiple "peas" sources.... Too many peas is another ingredient that really messes with EPI dog's system.... we have research to support this on the fiber page.
Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Chicken Fat, Powdered Cellulose, Rice Hulls, Corn, Wheat, Corn Gluten Meal, Natural Flavors, Wheat Gluten, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Fish Oil, Monocalcium Phosphate, Grain Distillers Dried Yeast, Psyllium Seed Husk, Sodium Silico Aluminate, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Fructooligosaccharides, L-Lysine, Vegetable Oil, Dl-Methionine, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Taurine, Choline Chloride, Vitamins [Dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement], Marigold Extract (Tagetes Erecta L.), Trace Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Copper Proteinate], Rosemary Extract, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 21.0% min
Crude Fat 14.0% min
Crude Fiber 12.5% max
Moisture 10.0% max
Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) 0.18% min
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 0.08% min
#2 Next... for those poor sore lips and mouth, if you have any vitamin E capsules, pop one with a pin and squeeze the vitamin e oil on the lips etc, it will help with the healing.... and then when feeding, do some of the following things to stop this from happening again.
1. add a pinch more water to the food mixed with the enzymes.... this will help reduce the caustic properties.... the food needs to be moist enough so that the enzymes do not remain dry
2. let the food with the enzymes incubate 10-15 minutes longer than the typical 20 minutes
3. be sure to start with the ratio of 1 level tsp enzymes per 1 cup of food (if dry) add enough water , if canned food reduce the enzymes to about 1/2-3/4 tsp per cup of wet food.
4. rinse the mouth out with a squirt bottle of water after Shadow is done eating
5. or give Shadow a few ice cubes to "lick" after a meal.
6. some folks will gently wipe the inside of the mouth out with a warm washcloth
7. you can try reducing the enzymes by 1/8 tsp- -but this is do not think is the best thing to try in the beginning........
8. mixing the enzymes in yogurt is a good idea...and then mixing the yogurt in the food, but still let it incubate for 20-30/+ minutes.
#3 I am confused about the Tylan you are giving (Tylosin 2700g/tsp - 1/10 teaspoon).... normally in the USA we give Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate 100 grams- -made by Elanco is the common one) with breakfast and dinner..... some people can mix the tylan in the food, but with some dogs (like mine) she will NOT eat her food as the Tylan has a very nasty taste. I ahve to camouflage the tylan by putting it in an empty gel cap, tucking that gel cap in a blob of cream cheese and giving it this way. There is a dosing chart (geared towards 100gram of Tylan powder) on this page https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/.
The dosage is decided by the weight of the dog.
Can you share with us the brand name of the Tylan you are giving??? Or double check that it is 2700 grams, not 100grams????
#4. Has your vet said anything about B12??? 4 out of 5 EPI dogs require B12 supplementation. Either shots of high dose oral B12.
#5. keep and EPI log, this will help you figure out what does and does not work for Shadow in managing his EPI.... you can download an EPI log template from here: https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/
#6. Please know that EPI is manageable.... once you find the right balance of things. As an example.... my gal was diagnosed with EPI when she was 1+1/2 yr old....... that was 12 yrs ago.... she is now 13 +1/2 yrs old and still doing well.
And last but not least, please be sure to share with your vet everything we suggest to you
So sorry to hear that Shadow has EPI, but please know, we will help you figure out what adjustments are needed to get Shadow to optimally respond to the EPi treatment.
#1 Get a different food. If you can get a refund that would be great. Unfortunately too much fiber can great inhibit the enzyme activity of the pancreatic enzymes that EPI dogs need to survive. It can mess up the efficacy from anywhere between 0% to 50%.... and we just don't know from one dog to the next, but the result is bad stools, gastro issues
Just a FYI.... the food you are currently feeding has a lot of (no offense) crap in it AND the fiber content is extraordinarily high.
(See below in red)
What you might want (initially) is middle of the road food that has a low fiber content usually something with 4% or less..., preferably made with sweet potato or potato or tapioca... initially try to avoid foods made with grain AND stay away from foods that use multiple "peas" sources.... Too many peas is another ingredient that really messes with EPI dog's system.... we have research to support this on the fiber page.
Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Chicken Fat, Powdered Cellulose, Rice Hulls, Corn, Wheat, Corn Gluten Meal, Natural Flavors, Wheat Gluten, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Fish Oil, Monocalcium Phosphate, Grain Distillers Dried Yeast, Psyllium Seed Husk, Sodium Silico Aluminate, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Fructooligosaccharides, L-Lysine, Vegetable Oil, Dl-Methionine, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Taurine, Choline Chloride, Vitamins [Dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement], Marigold Extract (Tagetes Erecta L.), Trace Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Copper Proteinate], Rosemary Extract, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 21.0% min
Crude Fat 14.0% min
Crude Fiber 12.5% max
Moisture 10.0% max
Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) 0.18% min
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 0.08% min
#2 Next... for those poor sore lips and mouth, if you have any vitamin E capsules, pop one with a pin and squeeze the vitamin e oil on the lips etc, it will help with the healing.... and then when feeding, do some of the following things to stop this from happening again.
1. add a pinch more water to the food mixed with the enzymes.... this will help reduce the caustic properties.... the food needs to be moist enough so that the enzymes do not remain dry
2. let the food with the enzymes incubate 10-15 minutes longer than the typical 20 minutes
3. be sure to start with the ratio of 1 level tsp enzymes per 1 cup of food (if dry) add enough water , if canned food reduce the enzymes to about 1/2-3/4 tsp per cup of wet food.
4. rinse the mouth out with a squirt bottle of water after Shadow is done eating
5. or give Shadow a few ice cubes to "lick" after a meal.
6. some folks will gently wipe the inside of the mouth out with a warm washcloth
7. you can try reducing the enzymes by 1/8 tsp- -but this is do not think is the best thing to try in the beginning........
8. mixing the enzymes in yogurt is a good idea...and then mixing the yogurt in the food, but still let it incubate for 20-30/+ minutes.
#3 I am confused about the Tylan you are giving (Tylosin 2700g/tsp - 1/10 teaspoon).... normally in the USA we give Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate 100 grams- -made by Elanco is the common one) with breakfast and dinner..... some people can mix the tylan in the food, but with some dogs (like mine) she will NOT eat her food as the Tylan has a very nasty taste. I ahve to camouflage the tylan by putting it in an empty gel cap, tucking that gel cap in a blob of cream cheese and giving it this way. There is a dosing chart (geared towards 100gram of Tylan powder) on this page https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/.
The dosage is decided by the weight of the dog.
Can you share with us the brand name of the Tylan you are giving??? Or double check that it is 2700 grams, not 100grams????
#4. Has your vet said anything about B12??? 4 out of 5 EPI dogs require B12 supplementation. Either shots of high dose oral B12.
#5. keep and EPI log, this will help you figure out what does and does not work for Shadow in managing his EPI.... you can download an EPI log template from here: https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/
#6. Please know that EPI is manageable.... once you find the right balance of things. As an example.... my gal was diagnosed with EPI when she was 1+1/2 yr old....... that was 12 yrs ago.... she is now 13 +1/2 yrs old and still doing well.
And last but not least, please be sure to share with your vet everything we suggest to you