new here, talking about my dog

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
User avatar
shirleyfang
Member
Posts: 8
Country: China
Dog name: Caesar

new here, talking about my dog

Post by shirleyfang » 10 Apr 2019, 04:08

Hi there,

My 3-year-old German shepherd, Caesar, was diagnosed with EPI last November. He began to gnaw at his skin and lose weight last July.His TLI-result was 3.7ug/l,and losted 5 kg of weight.

When I searched for information, I found epi4dog and learned a lot of professional knowledge from it.I bought pancreatin, B12 injection, tylosin, cereal-free dog food.Caesar has gained 1.5 kg in weight since December last year. The obvious bones are slowly covered with meat.It's a pleasant thing, but I still have a few questions to seek advice from you.

He grew very slowly and even occasionally lost weight. I tried to increase the amount of pancreatin and food, but the effect was limited.What else can I do to gain his weight? Thank you.
My name is Shirley we live in Beijing in China.
Caesar is a 3-year-old German Shepherd Dog,was diagnosed with EPI in December of 2018。

2018.12,TLI:3.7 μg/l;folic acid:2.67ng/ml(Below normal);B12:181.1pg/ml(Below normal)
2019.1,folic acid:28.39nmol/l(normal value);B12:648pmol/l(normal value)
TLI will be tested again in June 2019

We use Pancreatin, Tylan and B12 injection

User avatar
Jean
Staff
Posts: 450
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: new here, talking about my dog

Post by Jean » 10 Apr 2019, 05:08

Good Morning from UK

what is your name, and what part of China are you ?

You are doing all of the right things

my suggestion would be, to feed 50% more each day of the recommended amount for the weight Caesar should be, over as many meals as you can fit in, maybe 3 or 4, all enzymed

what food are you feeding ?

increasing enzymes without increasing the amount of food will have VERY limited value

huge welcome from across the world

Jean ::
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules


Jeanx

User avatar
Riley's Mom
Staff
Posts: 177
Country: United States
State: Virginia

Re: new here, talking about my dog

Post by Riley's Mom » 10 Apr 2019, 09:09

Hi and welcome to the forum
How are your dog's poops? That a how you can really tell how things are going with your dog. If the poops are good, not runny or frequent then your pup is probably doing well.
As far as the weight goes, some dogs take a bit of time to regain their weight. If he is no longer losing, and all other things are good (good poops, no stomach rumbling or gas), then he just may take some time to regain. I agree with Jean, feed 150% of the recommendation on the dog food bag for Caesar's goal weight, not his current weight. Break up meals over 3-4 feedings as your schedule allows. Make sure you are using enzymes for every meal.
Keep us posted and let us know how he does, and welcome to our EPI family.
Elisabeth

Riley is a 10 year old Labradoodle. She was diagnosed with EPI in 2014.
She currently eats Taste of the Wild, I cup in the morning, 2 cups in the evening, each meal with 1 Wonderlabs B12 sprinkled over her dinner. Enzymes are EnzymeDiane, 1 tsp per cup of food, mixed in home made bone broth. No other supplements or meds at this time.
Riley currently weighs about 44 pounds, which is pretty heavy for her.

Barb
Staff
Posts: 210
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: new here, talking about my dog

Post by Barb » 10 Apr 2019, 16:47

Hello and welcome!

I was wondering if you are still supplementing his B12. Our German Shepherd, Kolby, was a very slow gainer. As Lis said, some dogs gain weight slowly. However, only after we got his B12 levels up did he start to gain steadily. We gave injections for quite some time, then switched over to B12 capsules from Wonderlabs. I don't know if they ship to China, but you can check out their website. Their B12 pills (Pet Factor or Trinfac B)have Intrinsic Factor which helps them to be absorbed.

Let us know.

Barb

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 359
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: new here, talking about my dog

Post by jilbert57 » 10 Apr 2019, 17:52

Hi and welcome.

 I noted your dogs score was 3.7. With this score you definitely should use enzymes . Please RETEST the Tli at 6 months, or if money is tight 8 months. If it remains elevated at 3.7 upon retest, continue with enzymes but retest again in 6-8 months again. I was told by another staff it may take up to 2 years to get a diagnosis. If the TLI is trending upward it is not EPI.

From TAMU website:

Serum Trypsin-Like Immunoreactivity (TLI)
Interpretation

In dogs, values below 2.5 µg/L are diagnostic for EPI. Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI but may reflect subclinical pancreatic disease such as subtotal pancreatic acinar cell destruction secondary to on-going immune-mediated lymphocytic pancreatitis. Progression of the disease in such patients may ultimately lead to EPI. Values between 2.5 and 3.5 µg/L are sometimes (but rarely) associated with clinical signs due to EPI. In these cases the TLI assay should be repeated after one month paying particular attention to ensuring that food is withheld for 8 to 12 hours before the blood sample is collected."


Does your pup ever have a gut ache after eating?

Let us know how it goes!
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 12 yrs young. TJ is a 3 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

User avatar
shirleyfang
Member
Posts: 8
Country: China
Dog name: Caesar

Re: new here, talking about my dog

Post by shirleyfang » 10 Apr 2019, 23:25

Jean wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 05:08
Good Morning from UK

what is your name, and what part of China are you ?

You are doing all of the right things

my suggestion would be, to feed 50% more each day of the recommended amount for the weight Caesar should be, over as many meals as you can fit in, maybe 3 or 4, all enzymed

what food are you feeding ?

increasing enzymes without increasing the amount of food will have VERY limited value

huge welcome from across the world

Jean ::
Hi,I am from Beijing, China.Thank you for your recognition of my work.

The brand of dog food now being eaten is ACANA. According to the recommended diet, Caesar weighs 36.5 kg and eats 265g of food every day. But I give him 500g of food every day.While because of my job, he can only be fed two meals a day.

Thank you for your advice. I will try to provide him with 3-4 meals on weekends,all enzymed.
My name is Shirley we live in Beijing in China.
Caesar is a 3-year-old German Shepherd Dog,was diagnosed with EPI in December of 2018。

2018.12,TLI:3.7 μg/l;folic acid:2.67ng/ml(Below normal);B12:181.1pg/ml(Below normal)
2019.1,folic acid:28.39nmol/l(normal value);B12:648pmol/l(normal value)
TLI will be tested again in June 2019

We use Pancreatin, Tylan and B12 injection

User avatar
shirleyfang
Member
Posts: 8
Country: China
Dog name: Caesar

Re: new here, talking about my dog

Post by shirleyfang » 11 Apr 2019, 00:39

Riley's Mom wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 09:09
Hi and welcome to the forum
How are your dog's poops? That a how you can really tell how things are going with your dog. If the poops are good, not runny or frequent then your pup is probably doing well.
As far as the weight goes, some dogs take a bit of time to regain their weight. If he is no longer losing, and all other things are good (good poops, no stomach rumbling or gas), then he just may take some time to regain. I agree with Jean, feed 150% of the recommendation on the dog food bag for Caesar's goal weight, not his current weight. Break up meals over 3-4 feedings as your schedule allows. Make sure you are using enzymes for every meal.
Keep us posted and let us know how he does, and welcome to our EPI family.
Thank you for your welcome.
Every day Caesar goes out to poop 2-3 times, the first time is very normal, but the second time it will be a bit soft.The time of poop did not increase compared with before the illness.
Compared to normal feeding, my daily feeding rate is 150%, but only twice a day.
I will try to increase the number of feedings over the weekend to observe his weight changes.
My name is Shirley we live in Beijing in China.
Caesar is a 3-year-old German Shepherd Dog,was diagnosed with EPI in December of 2018。

2018.12,TLI:3.7 μg/l;folic acid:2.67ng/ml(Below normal);B12:181.1pg/ml(Below normal)
2019.1,folic acid:28.39nmol/l(normal value);B12:648pmol/l(normal value)
TLI will be tested again in June 2019

We use Pancreatin, Tylan and B12 injection

User avatar
shirleyfang
Member
Posts: 8
Country: China
Dog name: Caesar

Re: new here, talking about my dog

Post by shirleyfang » 11 Apr 2019, 00:58

Barb wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 16:47
Hello and welcome!

I was wondering if you are still supplementing his B12. Our German Shepherd, Kolby, was a very slow gainer. As Lis said, some dogs gain weight slowly. However, only after we got his B12 levels up did he start to gain steadily. We gave injections for quite some time, then switched over to B12 capsules from Wonderlabs. I don't know if they ship to China, but you can check out their website. Their B12 pills (Pet Factor or Trinfac B)have Intrinsic Factor which helps them to be absorbed.

Let us know.

Barb
Hello,
Caesar has been consistently injected with B12 every week. Thank you for your suggestion of wonderlabs B12 capsule. I will communicate with the website whether it can be sent to China.
I hope capsules can help Caesar.
My name is Shirley we live in Beijing in China.
Caesar is a 3-year-old German Shepherd Dog,was diagnosed with EPI in December of 2018。

2018.12,TLI:3.7 μg/l;folic acid:2.67ng/ml(Below normal);B12:181.1pg/ml(Below normal)
2019.1,folic acid:28.39nmol/l(normal value);B12:648pmol/l(normal value)
TLI will be tested again in June 2019

We use Pancreatin, Tylan and B12 injection

User avatar
shirleyfang
Member
Posts: 8
Country: China
Dog name: Caesar

Re: new here, talking about my dog

Post by shirleyfang » 11 Apr 2019, 01:31

jilbert57 wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 17:52
Hi and welcome.

 I noted your dogs score was 3.7. With this score you definitely should use enzymes . Please RETEST the Tli at 6 months, or if money is tight 8 months. If it remains elevated at 3.7 upon retest, continue with enzymes but retest again in 6-8 months again. I was told by another staff it may take up to 2 years to get a diagnosis. If the TLI is trending upward it is not EPI.

From TAMU website:

Serum Trypsin-Like Immunoreactivity (TLI)
Interpretation

In dogs, values below 2.5 µg/L are diagnostic for EPI. Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI but may reflect subclinical pancreatic disease such as subtotal pancreatic acinar cell destruction secondary to on-going immune-mediated lymphocytic pancreatitis. Progression of the disease in such patients may ultimately lead to EPI. Values between 2.5 and 3.5 µg/L are sometimes (but rarely) associated with clinical signs due to EPI. In these cases the TLI assay should be repeated after one month paying particular attention to ensuring that food is withheld for 8 to 12 hours before the blood sample is collected."


Does your pup ever have a gut ache after eating?

Let us know how it goes!
Your suggestion is very useful.

I plan to take Caesar for another TLI test in June this year.

You mentioned “Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI”,do I need to check Caesar for other diseases? Or continue to treat according to the treatment of EPI. And he doesn't have a gut ache after eating.

Thank you!
My name is Shirley we live in Beijing in China.
Caesar is a 3-year-old German Shepherd Dog,was diagnosed with EPI in December of 2018。

2018.12,TLI:3.7 μg/l;folic acid:2.67ng/ml(Below normal);B12:181.1pg/ml(Below normal)
2019.1,folic acid:28.39nmol/l(normal value);B12:648pmol/l(normal value)
TLI will be tested again in June 2019

We use Pancreatin, Tylan and B12 injection

User avatar
Jean
Staff
Posts: 450
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England

Re: new here, talking about my dog

Post by Jean » 11 Apr 2019, 03:59

Do you have the results of the tests run to establish EPI

this is what it says on the USA University site

In dogs, values below 2.5 µg/L are diagnostic for EPI. Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI but may reflect subclinical pancreatic disease such as subtotal pancreatic acinar cell destruction secondary to on-going immune-mediated lymphocytic pancreatitis. Progression of the disease in such patients may ultimately lead to EPI. Values between 2.5 and 3.5 µg/L are sometimes (but rarely) associated with clinical signs due to EPI. In these cases the TLI assay should be repeated after one month paying particular attention to ensuring that food is withheld for 8 to 12 hours before the blood sample is collected.

so was this test 12 hours fasted ?

the test results will show that laboratory's parametors

let us know what it says, it will say the result and whether it shows EPI , did the vets tell you it was EPI

3.7 is so very close to the positive , and as this states a repeat test should be done, after maybe month

also you are seeing an improvement since November of 2018, if it were me, I would continue with the enzymes

jEAN
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules


Jeanx

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests