Allergies to enzymes

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Paulag
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Posts: 43
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Pet name: Lyra
My name: Paula

Allergies to enzymes

Post by Paulag » 11 Aug 2019, 08:12

I am posting here in hopes to get some help. . I’ll try to make it short but it’s been a frustrating journey. Lyra was diagnosed in January after turning from healthy to disaster real quick. After starting Pantenex, b12 injections, a course of Tylan we were in out way to doing amazing.
The issue here is I realized after a few months I was experiencing severe lung pain, and breathing issues. Has anyone here experienced this and what was your decision?. I switched my 57pd GSD to Creon 10000 and it’s not going well. One day she’s good one day she’s really bad. Water stool! I give her two capsules per two cups of food twice a day. Increasing seemed to make it worse. I’m watching her loose weight in front of my eyes. Is there something I’m doing wrong? Any advise would be helpful. Tks Paula

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jilbert57
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Re: Allergies to enzymes

Post by jilbert57 » 11 Aug 2019, 09:09

How much food do you feed at a meal and is it wet or dry kibble?
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Paulag
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Posts: 43
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Pet name: Lyra
My name: Paula

Re: Allergies to enzymes

Post by Paulag » 11 Aug 2019, 09:14

She’s eating 4 cups of kibble a day.

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Patsy
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Re: Allergies to enzymes

Post by Patsy » 11 Aug 2019, 10:48

This is the forum info on Creon.
CREON (available world-wide!!!!)

These are enteric coated microspheres of enzymes encased in capsules. These capsules may be given whole or sprinkled on food if served immediately. Alternately, some people find that after giving Creon waiting for a period (5, 10 or 15 minutes) before feeding is more effective. Every dog is different and experimentation is required to find the most effective method. Please note: if you are going to sprinkle the contents ensure that the dog eats the entire meal so that all of the Creon is ingested. If in doubt, give the capsule whole before trying the sprinkling method.
CREON is commonly used in many places outside the U.S. Existing CREON enzyme capsule products vary from region to region with not all strengths available in all regions. They can come in 5 , 6, 10, 12, 25, 40 strengths and new strengths approved as of 2009 of 6, 12, strengths are becoming more readily available mainly in the US. When initially treating an EPI dog, it is recommended to start with CREON 12 or CREON 10 which has 10,000 USP of Lipase, 37,500 USP of Protease, 33,200 USP of Amylase. There is some latitude using Creon as its effectiveness is dependent on the dog’s pH level (you do not need to test for this) so getting the exact strength is not strictly necessary.
The CREON the potency measurement comparison is as follows:
CREON 10 Composition : 150 mg Pancreatin
Amylase 8,000 PhEur units (BP Units) also equals 33,400 USP units
Lipase 10,000 PhEur units (BP Units) also equals 10,000 USP units
Protease 600 Ph Eur units (BP units) also equal 37,500 USP units
CREON 25 Composition : 300 mg Pancreatin
Amylase 18,000 PhEur units (BP Units) also equals 74,700 USP units
Lipase 25,000 PhEur units (BP Units) also equals 25,000 USP units
Protease 1,000 Ph Eur units (BP units) also equal 62,500 USP units
However… please know, once you start with a particular brand of CREON and it works… TRY NOT TO SWITCH brands!!!! “There are so many variables with prescriptions for CREON from different countries. Different countries fill the CREON differently. It is not regulated like medicine for hypertension etc. Changing from one CREON made by Abbott opposed to CREON made by Mylan as an example will vary very much. It is strongly suggested that when you use a particular CREON made by a particular company …. stick with the one and do not try to use or vary them from one company or the another unless the amounts are exactly the same as you have been using and working for your pet.
A 2012 Research Study on the use of enteric coated enzymes (CREON, LYPEX, etc) for EPI dogs:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1746-6148/8/127/abstract
Giving CREON is not straight-forward…. the pet owner will have to trial and error to find the right dose and the right administration technique. The following is a little guidance on how to do this:
The trick to giving CREON is make sure that its activation starts at the right time while going thru the digestive system- -and that will depend on each dog’s very own pH level in their digestive tract / small intestine.. So…. it is all based on what your dog’s pH level is, not his size nor the amount of food given…. and this is why it takes a little trial and error with these dogs when placed on CREON.
First…. the dose. We suggest starting with a CREON 10,000 (or 12,000) per meal (you can add more if this amount doesn’t work)
Next… the technique…. the best way is to just try the following techniques to see which works best … and that is determined by the poo quality:
1. Give the CREON 10,000 (or 12,000) capsule whole or sprinkle the contents and feed immediately or wait for 10 minutes before feeding (some dogs respond better with either method). Watch the poo for a few days and try to assess. Please note: if you are going to sprinkle the contents ensure that the dog eats the entire meal so that all of the Creon is ingested. If in doubt, give the capsule whole before trying the sprinkling method.
2. if the above does not produce optimal poo results, then you can try 2 x CREON 10,000 (or 12,000) capsules. Watch the poo for a few days and try to assess if this helped, or if it is just right or not working at all….
3. if the above is not working at all…. then try giving a CREON 10,000 (or 12,000) capsule about 5 minutes prior to a meal… again, watch the poo and try to assess if this appears to work better than the above or not. If it does appear to work better…. but still isn’t perfect, then try giving the CREON 10,000 (or 12,000) about 10 minutes prior to a meal and again assess the poo over the next few days.
These are some techniques… the trick in giving CREON will be up to you to try and figure out TWO THINGS!
1. what is the best “timing” method of giving CREON.. whole in capsules or in some cases whether opened and served immediately or 5, 10 or 15 minutes prior to a meal.
2. and then the right “dose”… whether one CREON 10,000 (or 12,000) is enough or if you need two CREON 10,000 (or 12,000)… or if your dog is going to need approximately CREON 25,000 .
Some comparisons regarding CREON (Spring 2018):
(CREON) in Canada… YOUR CANADA DRUG STORE…www.YCDSCC.comShe

I’m sure a GSD owner will chime in. Personally I think you need to introduce a midday meal , as these dogs need 150% of the food for their desired weight, plus more enzymes with it.
You may need antibiotics again, possibly something other than Tylan.
What kibble is it?
Lastly, has your respiratory problem gone now that you are using capsules? The enzymes are very caustic. Some members using powder wear masks.
Please don’t despair, we’ve all been in your shoes. I got home from a gynae operation, to find my dog with diarrhoea and urine flooding in the night, and was mopping the room in my nightie with my own catheter in place, whilst OH slept. I thought she’d die, but she started to put on weight and recover from the inside to out, and lived happily with epi for another eight years.
Please keep posting, however simple the question.
Springer spaniel Marti had Epi, PLE , MMM just to confuse me. She lived till 12yrs, chubby and happy despite eight years of epi.
Capsule enzymes suited her best. B12 supplements made her into a new dog!
After a cocker with PLN kidney disease, I now have two healthy rescues, a lively, suicidal , small ginger terrier, adopted with pneumonia, and gum disease needing nearly all his teeth out, and a fluffy grey toy poodle/terrier from Greece.

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Paulag
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Posts: 43
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Pet name: Lyra
My name: Paula

Re: Allergies to enzymes

Post by Paulag » 11 Aug 2019, 18:48

Thank you so much,
She is on a food called Horizon complete adult. I am switching to Farmina slowly. She can’t tolerate rice at all.
Right now I give her 2 10000 capsules 5 minutes before eating two cups of kibble. Twice a day. I can feed her three times a day but only when I’m not working. Her stool is terrible and she vomited twice now. Once this am on an empty stomach and right now before supper. Bile and little kibble but really yellow. I don’t know what to do! Should I increase the Creon? This food has barley and oats so this may be hard for her to digest. I tried the mask with the powder but even with it on her lips I react. Severe allergies. Lung pain and wheezing.
I don’t know why she vomiting!

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jilbert57
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Re: Allergies to enzymes

Post by jilbert57 » 11 Aug 2019, 22:19

It stands out to me with the article Patsy posted that timing is alot of the Creon equation. Did you first start with 1 Creon 10,000 per meal and that did not work? Did you try opening the capsule and pouring contents on the food to be eaten immediately? The last 4 steps of the article above tell you how to do some tweaking
I put Micks powdered enzymes in gel caps and fed pre meal..
Sounds like some acid reflex. You could try either Zantac or Pepcid before bed. Or if need be run that by your vet.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Paulag
Member
Posts: 43
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Pet name: Lyra
My name: Paula

Re: Allergies to enzymes

Post by Paulag » 12 Aug 2019, 07:10

Hello, my biggest issue is I can not open the capsule. My allergy to the enzyme is bronchial and quite severe. So i started with one capsule 5 minutes before feeding. She took three days to have a decent poop. Then back to loose. So I started two a feeding and no better. Now I’m getting bile throw up in the am which she hasn’t had in 7 months and was perfect on Pantenex. I can’t even be in the same room with a jar of Pantenex and I’m guessing any other powder enzyme that isn’t capsuled. My doctor told me a small percentage of humans are allergic to enzymes and thankfully it’s not myself with EPI.
So I am praying to god I find the right recipe for my Lyra. I do however have her on a food with oats and barley and thinking maybe Creon can’t break this down where a Pantenex is more corrosive. I am going to try increasing the time before feeding and see if this helps and also swiping her slowly to Farmina no grains. I am a complete mess of worry and feel helpless

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jilbert57
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Re: Allergies to enzymes

Post by jilbert57 » 12 Aug 2019, 09:44

Sorry, I thought it was only powder you had allergy to. Apparently you are sensitive to the enteric coated capsules that are not powder that make up Creon? Ok, so were you giving the Creon capsule premeal without opening them?
Because that is ok to do.
Is there someone else in the family who can feed your pup?
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Paulag
Member
Posts: 43
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Pet name: Lyra
My name: Paula

Re: Allergies to enzymes

Post by Paulag » 12 Aug 2019, 10:22

My son can feed her but he is also coughing so am afraid it’s a genetic allergie. He’s only 14 so not taking any chances. I tried the chemical mask and gloves. Outside, and feeding outside. If she as much as licks me I wheeze. I am thinking if I get this Creon thing right we will be fine.

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Allergies to enzymes

Post by Jean » 12 Aug 2019, 10:37

welcome

geeeezzz

that is difficult, however we have had other members reacting very severely to enzymes

one wore a gas mask !

i am wondering about fresh pigs pancreas if you can get it

do you have issues with all powders, or could it be you are porcine allergic
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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