Still dont know and scared.

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Blu
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Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: Michigan
Pet name: Blu
My name: Debbie

Still dont know and scared.

Post by Blu » 12 Aug 2019, 06:00

Hi everyone, would be grateful for your thoughts.
I have a 9 week old gsd puppy. She has had diarrhea for two weeks now. Stool has no parasites. She is on vets canned food and 7 days of antibiotic stool hardener. Stool became somewhat firm. I started to introduce hard food back into her diet a tablespoon at a time mixed in her canned food. (She gets 6 small meals a day) one day I gave her 3 tablespoons of hard food and the next day she had 5 tablespoons. Now she is back to watery diareaha that shoots right out with gassy sounds. Its always been chocolate in color. She is very happy, lively, energetic, playful and in no way appears to be sick. I'm calling the vet today when they open. Can this be epi when the only thing she has is diareaha?

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Paulag
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Posts: 43
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Pet name: Lyra
My name: Paula

Re: Still dont know and scared.

Post by Paulag » 12 Aug 2019, 07:24

There are blood test to confirm all this but yes it very well could be EPI or something related to her pancreas. Two weeks is a long time for a growing puppy. Sounds like blood works your next step.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Still dont know and scared.

Post by jilbert57 » 12 Aug 2019, 09:35

Hi Debbie and welcome to the forum.
The only way to be 100% positive it is EPI is to have your vet run a cTli test. It is a 12 hour fast, water only. If positive you can follow guidelines for EPI.

Keep a check the little guy does not get dehydrated.

Does the diarrhea have undigested pieces of food in it or strictly liquid?
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

Blu
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Posts: 2
Country: United States
State: Michigan
Pet name: Blu
My name: Debbie

Re: Still dont know and scared.

Post by Blu » 12 Aug 2019, 14:17

It's just liquid. I called the vet this morning and they have her on the 12 hour fast. I assume when we go in tomorrow morning they will do the test. How long does it usually take for the results?

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Still dont know and scared.

Post by jilbert57 » 12 Aug 2019, 14:55

If they send it to IDEXX seems it was 5-7 days. I am not sure if they send it to TAMU. So it is a 12 hr fast before her appointment. Have you tried a little plain pumpkin?
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 13, TJ is a 4 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Olesia711
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Posts: 943
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy

Re: Still dont know and scared.

Post by Olesia711 » 12 Aug 2019, 15:43

Ahhhhh... puppy poop *sigh*...............

First IDEXX is just as good as TAMU lab when testing for EPI.... however.... when we test for EPI we "suggest" (since you are already drawing blood / food fast the dog ) might as well save a little bit of money and also run a Cobalamin (B12 ) blood test since4 out of every 5 EPI dogs have low B12 too. ANYWAY.... TAMU is the premier lab for testing B12 (i guess it can be wee bit tricky) although other labs, like IDEXX do test for B12 too, just that TAMU is the best.

Regarding the puppy having EPI, it is possible especially since it is a GSD..... BUT......................... a couple of things i would like to mention.
1. Puppies can and do have loose stools from SOOooooo many things.... that even when EPI is suspected... and even if the TLI test comes back positive... with puppies... if there is a confirmed EPI case with a TLI test ... with puppies they recommend re-testing in a few months to confirm that it is EPI (see the TLI tab and this recommendation from Dr. Williams, the developer of the TLI test)

2. You say the the stools are watery brown..... very often when you see watery stools, it is because of a food sensitivity or food allergy.... not always, but often. So, add this to the fact that your pup is having watery stools when you are feeding it a particular dry food may be the problem and not EPI.

3. BUT, when dealing with a puppy, you ALWAYS have to be cautious that they may have picked up something like Parvo from somewhere/someone/someplace...... so your plan to contact the vet is a must.... Definitely have the vet check your pup over...for other things too.

Hope this helps and please keep us posted. Even if not EPI or not EPI at this time.... you are more than welcome to post here ... we will help you as best we can.
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

Tuckaboo.
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Posts: 107
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker

Re: Still dont know and scared.

Post by Tuckaboo. » 12 Aug 2019, 17:44

I just wanted to say I'm so sorry. It's hard when you've got a new puppy & it gets sick. I got a parvo pup from the shelter 25 years ago, and he survived for 15 years. I'm sure your vet has ruled that out. Heads up about the test, to me the cost was really high, but I know for some people it's not. I'm saving for it, and in the meantime we are having great results treating for EPI and following the advice of the wonderful people here at EPI4Dogs.---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd mix, and has not had a blood test for EPI. In May 2019 we started on sulfasalazine to eliminate IBS as diagnosis. Symptoms returned at end of course, so started on Tylan alone...no luck, so added enzymes, and progress was shown. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4t/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 2/day, and Tylan 1/2 t/day. No more coprophagia, he has gained 8 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family...no more grumpies with his much smaller brother & sisters, who do not have EPI.

Tuckaboo.
Member
Posts: 107
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker

Re: Still dont know and scared.

Post by Tuckaboo. » 12 Aug 2019, 17:48

Sorry I posted that last comment twice---I just remembered, when any of my dogs have had upset stomachs, they have been put on chicken & rice, 3 parts white rice, to 1 part boiled chicken. Can work wonders. ---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd mix, and has not had a blood test for EPI. In May 2019 we started on sulfasalazine to eliminate IBS as diagnosis. Symptoms returned at end of course, so started on Tylan alone...no luck, so added enzymes, and progress was shown. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4t/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 2/day, and Tylan 1/2 t/day. No more coprophagia, he has gained 8 pounds, and he is a happy member of the family...no more grumpies with his much smaller brother & sisters, who do not have EPI.

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Madelon
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Posts: 638
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Still dont know and scared.

Post by Madelon » 14 Aug 2019, 22:34

Hi and welcome to our family! I know how you feel because 5yrs ago I was in your position. We brought Doc (my hubby's dream dog - solid black GSD) home and he had chronic diarrhea and peed literally every 5 minutes! He was diagnosed with a horrible case of coccidia and a bladder infection - with antibiotics it cleared up - however the diarrhea came back and it was pale, yellow cow pies that smelled of sour milk! He was tested for EPI although I had no idea that's what he was being tested for. He was diagnosed with SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) treated with antibiotics for a month and then continued to grow to a healthy 95lbs at 9mos old. At 11 months old he slowly started to lose weight - at 13mos old he had the same cow pies, eating his poo and throwing up - tested again for EPI and this time it was positive. My point to this story is that it takes time for the pancreas to atrophy so while you might test and it's negative, if the symptoms come back I highly recommend testing again.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Jean
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Posts: 736
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Still dont know and scared.

Post by Jean » 15 Aug 2019, 06:14

can I ask has the puppy been wormed since you got her, or before

one of my Sheps as a pup had the same and it was worms, and was it worms !
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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