Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Kristin
Member
Posts: 6
Location: Marshfield,
Country: United States
State: Massachusetts
Pet name: Layla
My name: Kristin

Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by Kristin » 15 Aug 2019, 10:59

Hi my 5yr. old GSD was just diagnosed with EPI and I started the supplements this week. I'm adding it to her dry food and she just won't eat it. I tried adding chicken or beef and somehow she manages to just eat that and leave the rest. Should I switch to a canned food? Also wanted suggestions for what type of food I should be feeding her, I recently went from Grain-Free back to regular hoping it would help her gain weight, then found out about EPI. Should I go back to Grain Free? My vet mentioned Purina Pro Sport dog food. Shes also on a B12 chewable. Also would love some suggestions on cheaper places to buy the supplements. Thanks for your help.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 516
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Aug 2019, 12:06

Hi and welcome. Do you have the test results from the Tli test and B12 and Folate if they were tested?

How are you preparing the food and enzyme? The recommended method is 1 teaspoon powdered enzyme per 1 cup kibble. Add a little room temperature water, stir well and let incubate for 15 to 20 minutes. Stir and serve. If you are doing it this way already you can try feeding on a flat plate or put a stinky topper like parmesan cheese, tuna, etc...

Here is a link for quick start:
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-quick-guide-usa/

Most EPI dogs do well on a grain free diet as the grains can interfere with the efficacy of the enzyme action. 4% fiber or under is recommended. Here is a link to the recommended dog foods that have worked well with EPI dogs:

https://epi4dogs.com/dog-food-options/

Does the oral B12 you are supplementing with have the Intrinsic Factor added? This is a must.
Here is a read:
https://epi4dogs.com/b12-in-brief-2/

Please remember all dogs are not the same so you might have to try a few different foods.

The Enzymes are not a supplement, your dog now needs enzymes on all food eaten for the rest of his life.

Sometimes dogs need an antibiotic as SID(small intestinal disease) might be present.

Jill
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 12 yrs young. TJ is a 3 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

Kristin
Member
Posts: 6
Location: Marshfield,
Country: United States
State: Massachusetts
Pet name: Layla
My name: Kristin

Re: Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by Kristin » 15 Aug 2019, 14:48

Thank you so much, this is great information. I wanted to ask about dog treats, should I not be given her them now that she has to have enzymes in her food?

Kristin
Member
Posts: 6
Location: Marshfield,
Country: United States
State: Massachusetts
Pet name: Layla
My name: Kristin

Re: Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by Kristin » 15 Aug 2019, 14:50

And I was not given the test results but I can ask for them. The powder I am using says it should be 1 teaspoon for every 10lbs of weight, so I'm giving her 5 teaspoons per serving and its seems like Alot! I probably give her about 2 1/2 cups of food twice a day, I wet it and add in something appetizing like chicken or ground beef when I can.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Aug 2019, 17:36

Thank you. Will you post the name of the enzymes? Enzymes are given not by the dogs weight but by how much food you feed. You might want to start using a measuring cup so you can be more accurate. If you feed 2.5 cups per meal it should be incubating in 2.5 teaspoons of powdered enzyme., room temperature water and let set 15 to 20 mins. Stir again before serving.

We recommend waiting on treats for your dog to become stable. ie: good solid poop, no tummy upsets.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 12 yrs young. TJ is a 3 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

Tuckaboo.
Member
Posts: 47
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker

Re: Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by Tuckaboo. » 15 Aug 2019, 17:51

I have never asked if this is OK, but I'm sure I'll find out now. My vet has always had me give my dogs turkey bone broth, and since treating for EPI, I haven't stopped giving it to my shepherd mix. I put some really hot water in a glass, add a spoonful of broth from the fridge, and stir until it's just warm. I put the ezymes in the bowl, kibble on top, pour a generous amount of the warmish broth, swish it around, and let it stand for 20 minutes. My dog eats it well, but then he even likes the taste of poo, so I guess his standards are pretty low. If you and the others decide you might try this, I'll tell you how to make the broth. Take care---Pam and Tucker, who used to be skinny, but now is not.

Tuckaboo.
Member
Posts: 47
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker

Re: Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by Tuckaboo. » 15 Aug 2019, 17:58

Pam again---I'm not sure if you were told about Enzyme Diane. Just Google it. She provides awesome customer service, and her enzymes are much cheaper than those I bought from the vet. MUCH cheaper. A member of this forum also sent me some Wonderlabs B12, and I think my Tucker is doing better since I replaced what I was giving him with these. I'm going to buy some more on Amazon. Sorry if this is redundant.

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Jean
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Posts: 572
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by Jean » 17 Aug 2019, 04:19

Good Morning from the UK Kristin, and Layla

the suggestion Pam gave you is well worth trying, none of them like enzymes to start with
so POINT 1-4

what enzymes are you using ?

what b12 ?

as to food

we recommend grain free food, kibble is fine, we fed kibble for 8 EPI years, grain free includes rice

as for weight gain try feeding 150% of the recommended on the bag of food for the weight she SHOULD BE, over a few meals if you can fit it in

what weight was she, and now ?

please dont fret, Kara was 39 pounds at her lowest, she gained 51 pounds over maybe 2 years, she was a mess

no food of any sort should be introduced without enzymes, she just will not be able to digest it

and keep a diary/journal on everything you do

Enzyme Diane is the enzyme most US people use, as Pam said

https://enzymediane.com/

as she had an EPI dog herself, she is very approachable, and knowlegeable

as I am from the Uk we use different enzymes

next, are there any tummy rumbles ?

Most dogs have gut issues with EPI at the start, it is known as SIBO, Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, now known as SID Small Intestinal Dysbiosis, treated by , in the main, Tylan, which is an antibiotic, widely used throughout the EPI world, you will see it referred to as both,

I kinow its overwhelming, but it becomes the norm

if you can let us know we can help, and we like pictures


Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules


Jeanx

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Madelon
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Posts: 552
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by Madelon » 17 Aug 2019, 20:54

Hi and welcome to our family! If you could get the test results and post them that will help us to make the best suggestions on how to get your dog stabilized. Based on the "1 tsp per 10lbs" I'm guessing what you are using is a supplement enzyme and not a prescription replacement. If your dog has EPI then the supplement enzymes are not strong enough and will not work. Most of us use EnzymeDiane as her enzymes are a lot less expensive. If your dog truly has EPI (diagnosed through fasted blood test) then we do not recommend giving treats until your dog is stabilized (good poops and weight gain) for a few months . As for food - we recommend grain free with 4% fiber or less as it can interfere with the efficacy of the enzymes.

We are all here to help guide you along the way so don't feel like you're in this alone :)
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Kristin
Member
Posts: 6
Location: Marshfield,
Country: United States
State: Massachusetts
Pet name: Layla
My name: Kristin

Re: Newly Diagnosed-Need some Suggestions

Post by Kristin » 19 Aug 2019, 11:36

HI everyone, again thanks so much for your help. Layla did much better over the weekend, I'm mixing her Grain-Free kibble with the enzyme powder-mixing with hot water and then applesauce and letting sit for 20 mins. She ate it right up. I'm giving her 2 cups of food in the morning with 2 teaspoons of enzyme power, then again 2 cups of food with powder at lunch and then another 2 cups at dinner with 1 teaspoon of enzyme powder, so shes getting 5 teaspoons per day. She was at 67 lbs a year ago and weighed in around 52 lbs 2 weeks ago. The EPI was determined through a fasting blood test.
What I had to buy from the vet was PancrePlus, it contains:
Lipase - 71,4000 USP units
Protease - 388,000 USP units
Amylase-460,000 USP units

I don't have the B12 chewable tablet name right now. Does the dosage I'm giving her sound correct?

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