poop is liquid

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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TankTank
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Posts: 24
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

poop is liquid

Post by TankTank » 06 Dec 2019, 08:30

Hello

Tank was doing well for a long time, but for the last month and a 1/2 poos have gotten soft and liquid but does not look like orange cowpatties like his poop did before he was diagnosed epi. the only change was b12 . in sept he finished a vile of b12, he was getting 8 units every 2 weeks. the vet said this new one was a stronger concentration so they recommended moving to weekly shots of 2 units. about 5 weeks later poop started to change some solid formed they rest liquid. now seems to be mostly liquid.. poops improve for a few days after injection of b12. He has not lost any weight. other mod we did was give another pouch of forti fauna probiotic. but this adjustment has not made things better. he gets 8x diane enzymes 3/4 teaspoon per cup. was thinking maybe that needs to be increased but just not sure.

any ideas

was thinking of going back to vet and get the same vile of b12 and start weekly injections of b12 8 units for 6 weeks. it does not look like sibo , just not sure

thanks

john
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

Barb
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Posts: 800
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: poop is liquid

Post by Barb » 06 Dec 2019, 09:06

Hi John. I am sorry that Tank is having difficulty. It would seem that the change in the B12 brought about the change in poo quality since that is the only thing that changed, but I am curious about the dosage and type of B12. Do you know if he is receiving the generic cobalamin? When I was giving injections to Kolby, we always used cobalamin 1000mcg/ml. I know that the name/dosage might be different in Canada, but if you could give us the generic name and dose it might clarify for us.

That being said we didn't see consistently good results with Kolby until we changed to the B12 pills with Intrinsic Factor from Wonderlabs. They are called Pet Factor and are relatively inexpensive, but they did the trick.

Has there been any change in food?

Barb

Barb
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Posts: 800
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: poop is liquid

Post by Barb » 06 Dec 2019, 11:00

ps The Wonderlabs Pet Factor pills do not require a prescription.

Barb

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TankTank
Member
Posts: 24
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: poop is liquid

Post by TankTank » 06 Dec 2019, 20:54

Hello,


Checked with vet and this b12 is 5x as strong, other bottle was 1000mcg/ml and was getting 8 units every 2 weeks, new dose was 2 units every week, but since it was stronger was maybe letting it go 10-11 days between injections, so vet said to do a hair more he will just pee what he does not need out..

going back to 7 days apart 2 units

nothing has changed otherwise, same food same dose of enzymes 3/4 teaspoon per 1 cup food, 8x diane enzymes. could he possible need more enzymes i have read on this site as they age they may need more.

he gets 2 cups morning 1 cup lunch 2 cups supper

he does not have excessive gas and gurgling like before he had enzymes added to food.

he has not got into anything, has not lost any weight so does not make sense, got to be the b12, tracking the injections now

thanks
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1545
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: poop is liquid

Post by Jean » 07 Dec 2019, 03:45

what strength of Diane enzymes are you using ? I am looking at the 3/4 teaspoon enzymes per cup of food
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1122
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: poop is liquid

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 07 Dec 2019, 07:02

Hey, John. Sorry about the poo; that's a real bummer. I just wanted to add that my EPI Tucker got the runs from two different types of probiotics, so we stopped them, though he is still on tylosin. Tylosin seems to really help with the solidness of his poo. Also use wonderlabs pet factor b12 2X day, and they work great. Available on amazon. Good luck---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI, as well as the fasting TLI. Results--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, two capsules slippery elm/evening, 1 Proviable capsule/day, and Tylan 1/32 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Sport Dog Elite, herding dogs 4 cups/day, with a couple tablespoons of Fresh Pet mixed in, because everybody else gets some. No more poop eating, has gone from 60 to 95!!! pounds, and he is a happy member of the family, though a bit of a stinker, if you ask the other dogs. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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TankTank
Member
Posts: 24
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada

Re: poop is liquid

Post by TankTank » 08 Dec 2019, 09:02

8x enzymes,

we looked at wonderlabs extra expense a vile of b12 is about 30 dollars per year and needles are very cheap, have to keep costs down
Tank GSD Born jul 22 16, diag EPI 22 months, TLI 06/08/18 b12 181,folate 22 TLI <1, TLI 08/15/18 b12 423 folate 12 TLI <1.0, Acana Lamb 2c 1c 2c mixed with 4 2 4 ounces fresh beef pancreas,liquified and mixed room temp, 6 hours, fortiflana probiotic, monthly b12 8cc, highest weight 93lbs(too chunky)lowest 73, current 82. Hate this disease.

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Madelon
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Posts: 1316
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: poop is liquid

Post by Madelon » 08 Dec 2019, 22:34

Hi John. Yes as EPI dogs age they seem to need a bit more enzymes. In my opinion I would try increasing the enzymes and see if things improve, if they don't I would definitely go back to the exact dose of B12 you were using before things changed. My boy was getting 2 WonderLabs pills a day and then I tried to reduce - he immediately lost 6lbs and poos went south - went back to 2 pills a day and he regained the weight and poos were good.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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