SIBO

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Sergey
Member
Posts: 5
Country: Russia
Pet name: zyigan

SIBO

Post by Sergey » 06 Jan 2020, 10:24

Hello! Please help with advice. I have a German shepherd with EPI. (weight dropped from 36kg to 28kg per month) a year ago, using your site (THANKS TO YOUR SITE and ALL YOU FOR THIS HUGE SUPPORT !!!) I managed to stabilize it (weight 40kg) but I have a problem with SIBO a month later after a course of tylosin, sibo returns again. maybe someone knows what you can try to do?

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Madelon
President
Posts: 725
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: SIBO

Post by Madelon » 06 Jan 2020, 22:39

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. A few questions so we can be able to offer better advice. What enzymes are you using and how are you preparing them? What food are you feeding? Are you supplementing B12?

Sorry for the questions but they are all critical components to properly managing EPI. There are four cornerstones to managing EPI: Enzymes, B12, Antibiotics (if needed) and Food. If any of these four cornerstones is not properly balanced you will likely have issues like SIBO (now called SID). Recent research has revealed all EPI dogs have SID but you have to get the right balance of the enzymes, food and B12 to keep it under control.

Here are the basics on the four cornerstones so you can make sure you are already following them:

ENZYMES: Recommended starting dose is 1tsp per cup of kibble, mix with a little luke warm water then mix in kibble and sit for 20-30 minutes before serving

B12: EPI dogs need their B12 600 or higher. Supplementing is for life as EPI dogs cannot maintain their B12 on their own. You can either do shots or get B12 pills with intrinsic factor from WonderLabs or Chemeyes.

Antibiotics: If dealing with SID a 45 day course of Tylan is recommended BUT do not stop cold turkey - slowly wean off

Food: Sometimes the hardest part - we recommend grain free with 4% fiber or less, avoid peas and chicken and feed 150% of the food for the weight your dog should be not the weight your dog is, but in smaller more frequent meals.

Once we know a bit more about your EPI protocol we'll be better able to offer suggestions to get the SID under control.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Sergey
Member
Posts: 5
Country: Russia
Pet name: zyigan

Re: SIBO

Post by Sergey » 06 Jan 2020, 23:39

Thank you for helping! the dog receives injections b12 once a week, petcurean food Composition:

Chopped dried chicken meat, chopped dried turkey meat, chopped dried salmon meat, chicken fillet, turkey fillet, trout fillet, potatoes, peas, tapioca, lentils, chickpeas. (I copied the first lines of the composition) Proteins - 34%

Fats - 16%

Fiber - 3%

Moisture - 10%

Calcium - 2.0%

Phosphorus - 1.2%
feed 2 times
300g 1 teaspoon pantenex per meal (tried more, poop became soft)
soak for 30 minutes

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Madelon
President
Posts: 725
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: SIBO

Post by Madelon » 07 Jan 2020, 21:20

Hi again. Okay, with regard to the food, although the fiber at 3% is good, it says there are peas and chickpeas and lentils and chicken. We recommend trying to find a food that limits or avoids peas and lentils as they can interfere with the efficacy of the enzymes. Also, for some unknown reason, a lot of EPI dogs cannot tolerate chicken after being diagnosed with EPI. You might want to try looking for a food that does not have peas and chickpeas and lentils. Food can be the hardest part of the puzzle for EPI, so we suggest buying small bags of food until you find one that agrees with your pup. Can you get Sport Dog Food Elite where you are? I'm not sure if they ship overseas or not.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Sergey
Member
Posts: 5
Country: Russia
Pet name: zyigan

Re: SIBO

Post by Sergey » 07 Jan 2020, 22:46

thank you very much for your help ! I am from Russia and there is no Sport Dog Food Elite. I will try another meal.

Sergey
Member
Posts: 5
Country: Russia
Pet name: zyigan

Re: SIBO

Post by Sergey » 08 Jan 2020, 04:13

Hello! sorry that a lot of questions (very worried) tell me, is this composition better than it was? Composition:
Dehydrated duck meat, dehydrated turkey meat, dried sweet potato (sweet potato), fresh duck meat, turkey fat, dried spinach, chicory extract (natural source of FOS and inulin), carob flour, dried apple, dried Antarctic krill (natural source EPA and DHA), flax seeds, DL-methionine, glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM (methylsulfonylmethane), a complex of natural antioxidants (extract of rosemary, grapefruit, orange, turmeric and syzygium). Preserved by vitamin C, rosemary and a mixture of natural tocopherols (source of natural vitamin E).
Fiber - 3.5%

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Madelon
President
Posts: 725
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: SIBO

Post by Madelon » 09 Jan 2020, 21:34

Hi again Sergey. That food looks like it should be okay - unfortunately you never know until you try. The one thing I would suggests is to buy small bags until you find the right food so you don't waste a lot of money. Please let us know how it goes - we are always looking to have recommendations for others overseas.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Sergey
Member
Posts: 5
Country: Russia
Pet name: zyigan

Re: SIBO

Post by Sergey » 10 Jan 2020, 03:38

Hello ! Thank you for helping. I just started giving tylosin (now everything is fine) when I finish, I will try a new feed and let me know how it approached. Once again THANKS TO ALL FOR THIS SUPPORT AND FOR THIS GOOD SITE !!! I read a lot and learned a lot. without you I myself would not have done it

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Madelon
President
Posts: 725
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: SIBO

Post by Madelon » 10 Jan 2020, 13:45

I'm glad we were able to help. Remember with the tylosin to slowly wean off - don't stop giving it cold turkey as sometimes that causes the SIBO to flare up again.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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