My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

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shepherdmom31

My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by shepherdmom31 » 12 Jan 2020, 15:26

My 2 year old German shepherd Idgie was diagnosed with EPI about 1.5 months ago. She has been on the enzyme replacement powder since her diagnosis but her stools have yet to return to normal. She still has liquid greasy stools and is always trying to eat them.

Per our vets instructions we add 1 tsp of enzyme powder to a few spoonfuls of wet food and let it sit 20 minutes. We feed her the wet food and then proceed to give her her 3 cups of dry Royal Canin German shepherd food. We have taken her to the vet several times because her stools are still liquid and the vet has no suggestions as she seems like a healthy dog. After doing some research all I can think to try is giving more enzymes per meal and adding them directly to some moistened dry food.

Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
-a stressed out dog mom

Tuckaboo Pam
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Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 12 Jan 2020, 16:09

Hi there. Oh dear, I am so sorry. You describe exactly everything my Tucker was doing at the start. Please give a bit more information...What enzymes are you using? Is he taking anything else? Here is what works for my boy, and he is doing well after sticking to this routine. 1 teaspoon enzymes per 1 cup of food (so, if he is eating 3 cups, he should have 3 teaspoons of some enzymes, but you'll need to let us know more about the enzymes, ok?), 1 capsule Wonderlab B12 w/intrinsic factor(amazon), and 1/4 teaspoon of Tylan, an antibiotic that is sometimes used longterm because it treats the small intestinal dysbiosis that is usually present with EPI, and it can be tolerated because it is very specific to where it works in the body. The enzymes are added to the entire meal, which is then wet with room temp water, and the entire bowl is marinated for 20-30 minutes. I also add the B12 and Tylan at the same time. I hope I'm not confusing you, but I wanted to cheer you up & let you know it's going to be alright. The administrators will be on here before you know it, and they will help you straighten things out. Also, you will get info about buying top quality enzymes at a greatly reduced price. Hang in there, you are not alone---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 12 Jan 2020, 16:14

PLEASE don't just go ahead & increase the enzymes until the administrators have figured out what kind you are using, OK?---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
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Re: My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by jilbert57 » 12 Jan 2020, 17:16

Hi stressed out dog mom, what is your name?
Pam has given you some good advice. Please let us know what enzymes you are using.

Thanks

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

shepherdmom31

Re: My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by shepherdmom31 » 12 Jan 2020, 17:50

Thanks for the quick reply! She is currently taking Patterson veterinary Zypatt Powder (pancreatic enzyme concentrate - ordered by our vet) and a Proviable DC probiotic capsule (1/day) that was suggested by our vet.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2090
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by jilbert57 » 12 Jan 2020, 18:05

Thanks for posting enzyme brand. This powder is dosed by.amount of food. 1 level teaspoon of enzyme per 1 cup dry kibble, plus tad more for the canned food. Mix it up, add tepid water, mix and incubate 20 mins. Stir before serving.

The Royal canin does contain grains at some point you might want a grainfree food with fiber 3.5% or under. Also limit potatoes, peas and lentils .

Did your vet test B12 or folate?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

shepherdmom31

Re: My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by shepherdmom31 » 12 Jan 2020, 21:59

Thanks for the help guys. I increased the amount of powder to 1 tsp/cup of food and mixed it in with her food and some warm water and let it sit for 25 minutes. Hopefully this will help her!

Yes my vet tested for B12 and folate. Her B12 was at a normal level 502ng/L

Her folate was higher than the normal range. 29.2ug/L. Idgie was prescribed metronidazole and the vet recommended continuing the probiotic to help combat the dysbiosis.

What is your guys experience with dogs with a high folate level? I just assumed this issue would resolve itself once the EPI was addressed but maybe that is not the case.

-Alyssa

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 13 Jan 2020, 04:32

Alyssa, we tried two different expensive probiotics, and ultimately had to drop them because they both gave Tucker diarrhea. I think some others have had the same experience.---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by Madelon » 13 Jan 2020, 20:13

Hi and welcome to our EPI family. I looked up your enzymes but could not find the actual amounts of lipase, protease and amalyse - can you post on here what the amounts are on the bottle? Just want to make sure they are strong enough.

There are four cornerstones to properly managing EPI:

ENZYMES: Recommended dose is 1 level teaspoon per cup of kibble, mix in a little luke warm water, then mix in kibble and let sit 20-30 minutes before serving. Most of us use EnzymeDiane Pancreatin 6x as it's a lot less expensive than the prescription enzymes from the vet - no prescription needed and shipped directly to your house.

B12: EPI dogs need their B12 on the high side of normal 600+ and supplementing is for life with these dogs. If your dog's B12 was 500 at diagnosis a year and a half ago then it's probably even lower now if you haven't been supplementing. You can either do shots or the WonderLabs Pet Factor B12 pills. Low B12 will affect appetite, mood, weight, poop, etc.

ANTIBIOTICS: If dealing with SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) we recommend a 45 day course of Tylan, given how long your dog has likely been dealing with SID I highly recommend starting a course of Tylan - after 45 days slowly wean off

FOOD; We recommend grain free with 4% fiber or less and avoid or limit peas and legumes. Feed 150% of the food for the weight your dog should be not the current weight but feed in smaller more frequent meals throughout the day.

Keep a detailed journal of everything you give and the resulting poop so you know what work and what doesn't. And don't worry we will be here to help guide you along the way
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

shepherdmom31

Re: My shepherd still has diarrhea - need suggestions

Post by shepherdmom31 » 15 Jan 2020, 09:03

The concentrations of enzymes are Lipase: 71,400 USP, Protease: 388,000 ISP, and Amylase: 460,000

For the last 5 feedings I have been giving her 1 tsp/cup of food. Which is 3 per feeding. And then adding warm water to the food and letting the food enzyme water mixture sit for 30 minutes. Idgie’s poop was better the next day. So good that I would say it’s almost normal again.

This seemed to help her a lot, but last night she did not want to finish all of her food which is very unusual. and the same this happened this morning. I took a look at her mouth and she has developed some sores on the inside of her lips and the outside of her snout just under her nose.

I’m not sure what to do now. I cannot give her increased enzyme as that is hurting her. Maybe the increased amount was not what is helping. Maybe it is the Way I am now preparing her food now???

Tonight all I can think is to try less enzyme with the same preparation method (enzyme+food+water 30 min incubation)

What do you guys think I should do??

Alyssa

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