New Member introduction and questions

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Boonesgrama
Member
Posts: 15
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Boone
My name: Joanne

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Boonesgrama » 14 Feb 2020, 09:59

Happy Valentine’s Day!

Ok I ordered the enzymes, the b12, and the slippery elm. I have not placed an order for the Tylan because I will hopefully get that from the vet when we get his results. We have insurance for him so I hope some of this is covered eventually. I got the other stuff because I highly doubt my vet is stocked with these things, and I have decided no matter the results I will probably start him on the slippery elm and the b12. This is getting very pricey, even with insurance I don’t know what my daughter is going to do. Right now she doesn’t have a job so we are covering everything. Don’t get a dog until you are finished with college, I said! “Mom, everyone in college has a dog, it will be fine” famous last words!

Jean i can’t believe that you had a cat and a dog with epi. I’ve never even heard of it until recently they started running commercials on tv for some medication for humans, and I’ve had dogs and cats my whole life. I’m sorry to hear about your Kara. If you don’t mind me asking, what is DM?

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Jean
Staff
Posts: 810
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara
My name: Jean

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Jean » 14 Feb 2020, 11:32

DM is the worst thing I have ever dealt with

http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/dm/basicdm.htm

there is no treatment, she had a set of wheels for a few months

My cat Cleo lived to age 20, with enzymes

I also have a human friend with EPI, I met her when I was in hospital a few years ago, I was talking to her, and noticed she was taking a drug called Creon which is used for some of our dogs in Australia and parts of the US, Canada, India, and other places too

so I ask why she is taking it and the answer is EPI , so I was able to quiz her on symptoms, day to day care and pain, she said at the start the pain in b12 her gut was worst than the worst period pain imaginable, she ws taking b12 for life and antibiotics when necessary

gave me some insight, also had a long talk with her consutant, he was fascinated

Cost of EPI is one people panic about as it is for life, but we have a lady, Enzyme Diane who does discounted enzymes

https://enzymediane.com/

most people in US use her, having had a EPI dog she is knowlegable and approachable



Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We use Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

Tuckaboo.
Member
Posts: 239
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Tuckaboo. » 14 Feb 2020, 16:54

Joanne, I have read about panting being common, but no, that is one thing Tucker did not do. It's my understanding that panting is a way for dogs to tell you they are uncomfortable, but there are certainly other reasons, too. Your pup must feel just lousy----hungry, weak, and with an upset stomach. But you're gonna fix all that for him, and he will be so grateful! The weight may take a little time, but once you have his routine set for a few days he'll start to feel better. As far as vets go, the one who diagnosed Tucker (trial & error, no test, full disclosure), has retired, so I have been doing this on my own & with the help of this forum. Our regular vet (no EPI experience) takes care of everything else, while being very supportive of my ideas & information. I have read that EPI is a most underdiagnosed condition, and some vets think it's kind of rare. If you can at least find one that will listen to you, that will be a positive move. Take care---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix, adopted on craigslist; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 3 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 1/day, and Tylan 1/5 teaspoon/day. Thriving on Sport Dog Food Elite/Herding Dog. No more coprophagia, his weight is steady, and he is a happy member of the family, if a bit of a bully with his four siblings from time to time. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Arya&Bran
Member
Posts: 11
Location: San Bernardino
Country: United States
State: California
Pet name: Arya
My name: Christine

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Arya&Bran » 14 Feb 2020, 22:09

Happy Valentine's Day from California!
My name is Christine and my Arya has EPI. Many of us have gone through the experiences that you are having. It's tough when you watch your furbaby grow thinner & thinner before your eyes. We are here to help with advice and to listen to you and be a form of support. One piece of advice I have not seen on this strand is ....No two EPI dogs are the same. There will be trial and errors, but everyone here is cheering you on!
Arya & Brandon born March 17, 2013. Lab/Shepherd/ Border Collie mix.
Arya gets 1/4 can of Blue Buffalo. Be sure there are no peas in the food. Backyard BBQ, & Denali Dinner are some of the foods. Be sure the food is warm, but NOT HOT, as it will kill the enzymes. We mix 2 1/2 teaspoons EnzymesDiane powder into her food(including the kibble), Blue Buffalo Life Protection Formula, 2 cups(Chicken & Brown Rice). We incubate food for 30 minutes.After the incubation period add, 2 Metamucil capsules(broken open & sprinkled on food)& Rx vitamins for pets probiotic. We add The WonderLabs B12 & Slippery Elm at dinner only. Again, we agree that no two EPI pets are the same.

Tuckaboo.
Member
Posts: 239
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Tuckaboo. » 15 Feb 2020, 09:59

Joanne, I live in Gainesville...we know all about college students! Really, though, once you gain a little more confidence, you'll be able to economize. When Tucker was first diagnosed, we were buying everything from the vet, and now we've cut the cost by about 75%, no lie. Of course, we don't have pet insurance. Diane, Foy's, and Amazon now provide all our EPI supplies, and we are doing OK, with a thriving boy who is a spoiled brat. Have a good weekend.---Pam
Tucker is a shepherd/lab mix, adopted on craigslist; he has tested positive on the ScheBo test for EPI. Currently taking Diane's Enzymes 3 teaspoons/day, Wonderlab B12 capsules 1/day, and Tylan 1/5 teaspoon/day. Thriving on Sport Dog Food Elite/Herding Dog. No more coprophagia, his weight is steady, and he is a happy member of the family, if a bit of a bully with his four siblings from time to time. Tucker is my boyfriend, and my husband is OK with that.

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Madelon
President
Posts: 785
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Madelon » 15 Feb 2020, 23:30

Hi Joanne - welcome to our EPI family. That is one lucky dog to have such a good grandma :)

If you haven't got the test results already, I suspect you will have them Monday if your vet is open on the holiday. Glad you ordered the enzymes from Diane as they will save your wallet greatly. When you order WonderLabs in the future use the code EPI4DOGS15 and you will get a 15% discount.

To answer your question about a regular blood panel - no there is nothing in a regular blood panel that will indicate EPI - unfortunately your vet is wrong about that.

As for growth issues - I've not heard of any unless the dog goes untreated. My boy was diagnosed at 13mos old and he's a BEAST! 95lbs of pure GSD muscle and craziness :)

There are four cornerstones to properly managing EPI:

ENZYMES: Recommended starting dose is 1 level teaspoon per cup of kibble, mix with a little luke warm water, mix in kibble and sit 20-30 minutes before feeding.

B12: Most EPI dogs have low B12 at diagnosis or will develop it. EPI dogs need their B12 on the high side of normal 600+ and supplementing is for life.

ANTIBIOTICS: All EPI dogs have SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) but it's a matter of keeping it under control with the proper balance of things. When first diagnosed we recommend giving the right enzymes, B12 and food two weeks to see if the gut corrects itself before giving antibiotics. If the gut does not correct itself then you can either try Slippery Elm Bark powder or Tylan (45 day course and slowly wean off).

FOOD: We recommend grain free with 4% fiber or less and avoid or limit peas. Feed 150% of the food for the weight your dog should be but in smaller meals throughout the day. Buy small bags of food until you find the right one.

EPI requires patience and don't worry we'll be here to help you.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Boonesgrama
Member
Posts: 15
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Boone
My name: Joanne

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Boonesgrama » 16 Feb 2020, 17:57

Thank you Madelon, this sight and all the members have been a great wealth of information. I have not received any results yet, hoping for Monday! I have received the enzymes and b12, still waiting on the slippery elm as it says delivery Feb 24th -March 2nd. We changed Boone’s food to Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Grain Free because it contains 3% fiber. It does contain peas though but his stool has already firmed up a bit in the last few days. It still has a strange (bad) Oder and still An odd yellowish/ brown color but better. I’m wondering if the Panacur liquid he was prescribed is the reason? Our vet prescribed Blue Natural Veterinary Diet NP but a 22lb bag is over $100 which I’d get if I absolutely have to but it has 6.9% fiber. Since our vet was wrong repeatedly, I’m going to stick with what I’ve learned on here for now, at least until the results come back. Thanks again, I’ll update as soon as I get his results.

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Madelon
President
Posts: 785
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
State: Tennessee
Pet name: Doc

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Madelon » 16 Feb 2020, 18:44

Hi there. Yes Panacur can cause diarrhea and if your dog does indeed have worms or other parasites it will stink, however, it is likely also SID. Do you know what worms your dog is being treated for? I would not recommend getting the prescription food - unfortunately it's what vets tend to do as soon as they are diagnosed with EPI. Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream has worked well for a lot of members - I wouldn't worry about the peas unless the poop doesn't firm up - it's pretty far down the list.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Boonesgrama
Member
Posts: 15
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Boone
My name: Joanne

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Boonesgrama » 16 Feb 2020, 23:19

Hi Madelon as far as I know Boone doesn’t have any worms. We treat him with heart-guard plus and have done the deworming medication each time we went to the vet with the diarrhea (just in case we missed something) This is the first time that we have taken doses of Panacur home, 5 days 1 time daily. I think my vet is trying to cover all bases. He’s testing for, or trying to rule out, stress colitis, irritable bowel syndrome, EPI, SID, and giardia. I hope the test results give us some clear answers!

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Boonesgrama
Member
Posts: 15
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Boone
My name: Joanne

Re: New Member introduction and questions

Post by Boonesgrama » 16 Feb 2020, 23:29

Hey Pam I know Gainesville well, my son just graduated from UF. My daughter, Boone’s mommy, goes to college in SC, and my other daughter lives in Ocala, your neighbor. I saw that there was a good EPI veterinarian in Gainesville at UF. It is good to hear that things will get better, I have to keep telling myself that, especially on days like today when I feel exhausted. I hope your weekend was a good one as well, thanks again!

~Joanne

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