Another Finn Update

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 08 Mar 2019, 12:05

Thanks, I will look into that. The ultrasound showed his clot has not returned so that's good news. He hasn't had gas since going off slippery elm. He's been taking the new probiotic (Visbiome) slowing increasing the amount without problems and has had an increase in appetite. Either from that or as a side effect of the xarelto. Although he's not as tired now as when he started xarelto, so that's leveled out. If the appetite stays where it's at for a while I'd say it is more likely due to the probiotic. Because the CBD oil he's been on hasn't shown any sign of helping, I've started to give him the one I'm on and will see if that helps with stiffness in hind-end. Right now things are stable and we have to move my mom again next week (as we did in Dec.), so going to let things with him coast along till that added workload is finished.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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Madelon
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Madelon » 09 Mar 2019, 11:38

Glad things have settled a bit and you figured out the SE does not agree with him. Something to keep in the back of your mind for future reference as something to consider - I can't remember if I mentioned it or not - but you could try grinding kibble - that's what I do for my boy. I don't grind because he doesn't like kibble, I started grinding it when he was first diagnosed with EPI because I thought somehow breaking the kibble up would allow the enzymes to reach every particle (don't know if that actually works or not) - but since it worked and he ate and we've never had issues I'm too scared to stop grinding his kibble. Anyway, I grind in a blender until it's all broken down then I mix his enzymes in water - I use more water than most about 5oz for 2 cups of food and that makes his food end up like pastry dough - kind of like wet food but not. Might be an option for you to try at some point.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 27 Mar 2019, 12:11

I hadn't thought about grinding the kibble. That may work.

Finn is currently on another round of Zeniquin. He started leaking urine again after a couple weeks of being dry. So there appeared to be a link between the leaking and a UTI, since he improved with antibiotics.

We finally got results back from a urine culture, and it grew small amounts of Corynebacterium urealyticum, but no sensitivity results (so flying blind there). That bacteria is a problem because some dogs who test positive develop encrusting lesions. The bacteria invades the mucosa of the bladder and forms a crust. This crust is difficult to treat because antibiotics may not be able to penetrate the crust. Severe cases require surgery to deride or remove the crusts. It's difficult without scoping the bladder to even know if the dog has the crusts. Finn has only been sedated once and it didn't go well (scared us a lot) and with the anticogulants surgery isn't good option anyway. Anyone have experienced this or read about this bacteria in particular?

With this course of Zenequin his is not as dry (still dribbling a bit) as he was on the first round of it. It puts him off his food, but thankfully not completely. And for the first couple days he reacts poorly to it (whining/panting) and we realized it makes him really thirsty as a side effect. Still on D-Mannose too. Not sure where we are going to go from here. When he started to leak more again, a urinalysis came back negative, so that's deceiving. It was only as he starts to leak more that finally WBC show up.

Also, one of his nipples has turned black and the skin on both sides of his groin has gone from pink to spotted dark patches. Hyperpigmention and it's changing pretty rapidly. I just sent our vet some photos of that. Some searching around showed this can be caused by hormones, allergies (which we know is an issue for him), hormone imbalance or inflammation (and that's an issue too). It's not red or itchy, and he's not scratching etc, but he is licking his groin area at times, which he does when he dribbles urine. Anyone see this happen with their dog?

Ah with Finn it's always something.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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jilbert57
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by jilbert57 » 27 Mar 2019, 21:29

Wow yes with some dogs it is always something. It was that way with our first jack, Mickey who had issues inherent and through his 15 years. At the time it seemed like a lot all the time. Now he has been gone 5 years and we have another 4 year old jack. I often think back and say I learned so much from that little Mick and all his conditions. It has given me a lot of knowledge to go forward! You are a great pup parent. Bladder issues are no fun.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 12 yrs young. TJ is a 3 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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Madelon
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Madelon » 30 Mar 2019, 23:11

I am so sorry you and your boy are going through so much. I wish I had some advice to offer but I have not experience in these issues so I can only offer a cyber hug and some prayers. Please keep us posted on how things go.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

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Olesia711
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by Olesia711 » 31 Mar 2019, 10:05

I am so so srry you are going through all of this with FINN.... and poor baby, he has got to be feeling miserable too.....

haven't re-read this entire thread, so this may have been mentioned already...... BUT..... has he been checked for Cushings? Or A-Typical Cushings..... (which can happen from a hormonal imbalance) ??? It took vets 2 years of running all kinds of tests.... FINALLY the Univ of TN (which at that time specialized in A-Typical Cushings....) finally diagnosed my dog correctly.... i guess it is real tricky with the A-Typical Cushing's diagnosis. But once the properly identified what was going on.... it took only a week on the proper medication before i saw a huge difference. Rico lived for 11 years with A-Typical Cushings....
Olesia, owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.3, Doing great 12+ years later! Once stable at 3+ months, was able to reduce enzymes to only 1/2 tsp of Enzymes (use EnzymeDiane's 6x) with each cup of food, but as she aged- -had to go back 1 tsp enzymes per cup of food. Fed various grain-free kibble+real meat, 6x pancreatin enzymes from EnzymeDiane., gave 1 tsp of coconut oil / fish oil daily .... until she developed Diabetes and she now cannot tolerate higher fat foods. Currently feed an 80% home-made diet of sweet potato, a lean meat/fish, 1/3 of a raw egg, fat free cottage cheese, fish oil+vitamins and bone meal with 20% Annamaet Lean & Grain Free kibble. This combo has regulated her Diabetes (takes Vetsulin) and EPI and is very well managed. In Feb 2013, Izzy developed a very serious condition called IMHA which she (thankfully) beat and is now in remission. This is when we discovered that she also developed Diabetes & Low Thyroid. Izzy was able to receive excellent care because of the generosity of folks on Epi4dogs! Izzy continues to wake up every day full of joy. I am not a vet. All of my suggestions/recommendations are based on personal experiences, observations, information gleaned from EPI researchers & pet parents alike, and EPI research. Please share with your vet everything we suggest.

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 15 Aug 2019, 13:06

Hi Everyone,
We are back with another crisis for Finn. I need the wonderful people on this forum to help calm me down.

Finn was holding pretty steady for a while. He was still incontinent at times. It varied day to day. He would start to leak more and then his urine would get a strong ammonia smell and that would be a clue of a UTI. The bacteria that can cause lesions in the bladder didn't culture a second time, which seemed odd, but we were happy about that. The cause of his incontinence is thought to be sphincter related or not emptying his bladder fully, perhaps neurological as well. He didn't do well on the meds they tried to help for that, so we just lived with it.

He was getting weaker in his hind-end and a really hard time getting up so he started rehab exercises and laser treatments. The PT was impressed with his improvements and we were happy too. He was getting stronger and able to do more exercises (sit/stands were much better). He couldn't hold his back end up to poop well either and sometimes would fall back to a seated position. Rehab helped that. Then suddenly he was having trouble making it around the block on a walk and getting weaker. He'd get very fatigued and have to rest, more than once to be able to get back home. We had another ultrasound done and the blood clot had returned. It wasn't as big and there was still blood flow but he started back on the Xeraltro. That seemed to help and he could walk a bit further before resting.

Around this same time he had another UTI, and went off his food - again. He had been eating turkey and stopped eating altogether. So, we fed him chicken again. This was very stupid because we suspected it was a problem for him, but he wanted the chicken and would eat it willingly. He looked like he was losing some weight so we started a tiny bit of enzymes and he gained 2 lbs in 2 weeks. He was on chicken for quite a while and seemed to be ok for the most part and then had another allergic reaction (secondary ear infection). That was last week. We went back to feeding turkey and him not wanting to really eat it. Throughout all this his poops didn't become loose. Softer on chicken but still formed. On turkey he was more towards the constipation spectrum with very hard, small poop, and needed pumpkin or somedays he didn't poop at all. He was down to one tylosin pill/day.

Still having allergic reactions on turkey (pawing at face) we decided to put him on a novel protein once and for all and do an elimination diet. We didn't slowly transition it because I wanted him off foods that had bothered him in the past, and not rely on so much Reactine. Risky move. 2 days ago we got a kangaroo kibble (PureVit) and grind it, as Madelon had suggested below. I added water and he ate it. In kibble form, he won't touch it. I gave several small amounts the first day and he was fine, although he was panting after he ate at times - which is not unusual for Finn and I've thought his stomach bothered him in some way for a long time. The next day he didn't really like the ground food, so we added a bit of canned kangaroo (Rayne brand). He loves the canned and will eat the dry (slop) when canned is mixed in.

In the middle of the first night he pooped on the floor. He did again yesterday and part of the reason is him struggling/straining to get up from a seating position. The hind-end weakness was much worse. He'd stopped laser therapy waiting to hear if it was ok while on the anticoagulant again and it wasn't helping like it had.

On his walks he poops like a goat sometimes just dropping poops behind him. Since last weekend he's lost visible muscle mass in the hind-end. Scary to see but I know EPI owners what that looks like. His incontinence was terrible on the weekend too, now it's back to better at times, worse at others. The ammonia smell came back slightly but not gotten worse yet. We took a sample in for culture. Not gotten results yet.

So, this new food: it's high in fibre (9%), has lentils - which I don't like the idea of but wanted to see if his allergies would calm down. They have. HOWEVER, he pooped 5 times yesterday. What does that say about absorption? The poops are getting progressively softer and larger but still formed with segments just not segments that are together in a log and that's how it's been for him for a while now. He had gas yesterday too. I've added more enzymes with this food and he can't smell it. I gave larger amounts yesterday divided but didn't feed him last night because I was afraid we'd get into diarrhea overnight.

He pooped on his walk this morning, it was not worse. He pooped after he ate this morning too and dropped a bit inside as he was rushing towards the door. At least he was aware he had to go, just couldn't get there quick enough. I've increased his tylosin dose to stop heading in a looser direction. I gave him a smaller amount of food this morning hoping to go back to smaller amount more frequently and he was ok for a half hour and then he was starving. He was begging for food, for my breakfast and at his bowl. That is not like Finn! So I gave him more and he ate it really quickly and then went and laid down crashed out. No gas yet today. No panting after he ate either.

He started gabapentin for pain a couple days ago (long overdue), and that's made him tired/dopey. But when he get bursts of energy he plays with his toys and he has been walking around 2 blocks in the morning and 1 block at night without having to rest. It seems like he's been getting himself up easier too and we have rubber mats down everywhere so he's not sliding around as much. So something is helping his stamina and maybe strength.

I'm worried about the weight loss (muscle) weakness, food and poop changes. I still think a lot of his issues are inflammatory originating in his gut. My husband is desperately trying to point out the positive things because I've been focusing on the negative so much.

So, what do you think? Thanks.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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jilbert57
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Aug 2019, 18:10

Wow that is a lot going on. Finn is a lucky pup!
Have you checked to make sure his B12 levels are high?

With a strong ammonia smell, have they ever taken an x ray or ultrasound to rule out bladder stones?

Was it Proin they tried for the urine leakage?

My aussie has been on Gabapentin and Carprofen with liver enzymes checked every 3 months. She is doing great, has gotten past the sleepy/droopy stage.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 12 yrs young. TJ is a 3 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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worriedparents
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by worriedparents » 15 Aug 2019, 20:27

I mentioned to the Internist today that he hasn't had B12 level checked in a long time. His poops hasn't been soft or loose, wouldn't it be if it was low? He did have his bladder checked on ultrasound after the incontinence started and it was clear. He could however have encrusting cystitis from that particular bacteria and they can't easily check for that without surgery. He was on Proin and it didn't work as they had hoped. How long did the sleepy stage last for? Glad to hear Gabapentin is working for your dog and thanks for the heads up about the liver.

We just took him for a walk around the block and he pooped. It was much smaller than it had been, so it's levelling off compared to yesterday. 3 poops today and I've not heard any stomach gurgles or gas all day. He got about 3/4 of the way home and had to rest. Had more stamina this morning. We got him up and he walked on. There was a dog walking on the other side of the street which got Finn's interest and my husband had a hard time holding him back. For being weak in the back (I hate seeing his spine and his gait is not good), he still has a lot of pulling strength. I had a hard time keeping up with them. He can still out walk my sore back and hips when he wants to and that's the key - when he wants to. I got an appointment with the neurologist, but it's not for a couple weeks.
Adopted Finn 4 years ago. He's 7 maybe 8 years old? Reoccurring diarrhea, picky eater and loss of appetite from day 1. Low B12 causing hind-end weakness in July 2017. B12 injections didn't help his appetite, diarrhea or energy like we thought they should have. I found this wonderful forum and learned about EPI, which he doesn’t have, and SIBO/SID which he does have. On Tylosin and B12 pills with intrinsic factor long-term. Blood clot in his left femoral artery in July 2018, which Clopidogrel and Xareltro helped clear up, also long-term. Latest problems since fall 2018 are food sensitivities and (misdiagnosed) UTI causing incontinence.

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jilbert57
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Re: Another Finn Update

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Aug 2019, 22:35

Yes, lower B12 can be associated with loose stools.

https://epi4dogs.com/b12-in-brief-2/

It took a good 5 to 7 days for Kiya to be good on the gabapentin. She was so sleepy but now she is pretty good.

It is good you still get out for walks, I think it helps them sleep better.
My name is Jill and I live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. I have two dogs: Kiya is an aussie/blue heeler and is 12 yrs young. TJ is a 3 year old Jack Russell. They keep me on my toes.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
6/1999 - 8/2014

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