Just diagnosed and need help.

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
Mary
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Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: Ohio
Pet name: Josie
My name: Mary

Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Mary » 27 Jun 2020, 16:26

This is causing me so much anxiety,i swear my dog is gonna cause me to have a heart attack!No matter what i add,she WILL NOT EAT,still throwing up,im taking her off metro today,and calling vet monday to make sure she signed script for the tylosin.Her poop is so runny,the beef pancreas has been nothing but trouble(raw)it does not blend into a paste it just goes round and round,my biggest issue is now she refuses to eat. :|

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Madelon
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Location: Nashville, TN
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Pet name: Doc

Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Madelon » 28 Jun 2020, 10:05

Hi Mary - I'm so sorry you're going through this. First, can you get to a health food store and get Slippery Elm Bark Powder? It's a prebiotic mucilage that coats the gastrointestinal tract and in recent research sometimes works better than antibiotics in treating SID (small intestinal dysbiosis). Still order the Tylan just in case the SE doesn't work but if you can get it today I would try it. Here's the link to dosing https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/. Just be sure to mix it with a tablespoon or two of water to make a paste - you can either put it on top of the food or let your dog lick it off the plate by itself since she's not wanting to eat. If your dog does like the SE you can order it from WonderLabs in the future - where most of us get our B12 pills from (remember supplementing B12 is for life with these dogs - please don't stop after the 6 weeks of shots) and get a discount using the code EPI4DOGS15.

As for enzymes, you can try putting the powder in capsules and feed that way - you'll want to use just a pinch more than usual because of the capsules. Have you checked for mouth sores? How much water are you using? You only need a little water to mix the enzymes with so they're not drinking it. You can also try adding a stinky topper like parmesean cheese BUT you might want to try what I do and has worked in some of our more difficult cases - try grinding the kibble in a blender - mix the enzymes in the little bit of water to dissolve, then mix in the ground kibble and sit 20-30 minutes.

Please keep us posted.
MADELON and Doc. DX EPI and SIBO: 5/22/2015
Test Results: (1st) 7/2014 = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate > 24; (2nd) 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24; (3rd) 10/2015 TLI < .4; B12 >1000; Folate 14.4. Prior to DX: May 2014 (2mos) - DX coccidia/bladder infection; July 2014 (3mos) 1st EPI test = TLI 16.5, B12 894, Folate >24 - Dx SIBO not EPI; Feb 2015 thru May 2015 - weight loss only; May 2015 vomitted several times, diarrhea and eating poop. Regimen: 4 cups Sport Dog Food Elite Herding - Diane 6x 1tsp per cup; 1 WonderLab PetFactor B12 2x day; 1/2tsp Slippery Elm 2xday; Multivitamin; 1 Zyrtec 10mg 2x day; Salmon Oil

Mary
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: Ohio
Pet name: Josie
My name: Mary

Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Mary » 28 Jun 2020, 20:08

Its late afternoon here,no poop yet,anxiously waiting.As for the RAW PANCREAS,do you have to let that sit for 20 minutes as well on the food?so far,the ONLY WAY to get her to eat is to add a small can of tuna.I will get slippery elm tomorrow.

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Shirl D.
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Country: United States
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Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Shirl D. » 28 Jun 2020, 22:06

Hi Mary,

My EPI girl, Pixie, wouldn't eat anything at first. I was convinced she was going to starve to death before I could get her to eat! It's 9 years later, and she still gets picky sometimes, but she is far from starving to death! Please hang in there! Have you checked out the "Camouflaging the enzymes" page? https://epi4dogs.com/camouflaging-the-enzymes/ With Pixie, the first thing I had to do was find a food she liked. I found she liked canned better than anything else, so she got canned food. I also found that she ate better if I put her food in a wide, shallow bowl, like a soup bowl. I bought a bunch of Corelle soup bowls that are just hers. I think the lower sides and wide bowl keep the enzyme smell from building up in the bowl as much as it does in more typical dog food bowls. Adding tuna isn't a bad thing, as long as there is enough enzyme in the food to digest the tuna, too. Take a look at that page. Hopefully something will work for you.
As for the no poop yet, hopefully that means that she's digesting more of her food, so it's not just going through the system very quickly. Fingers crossed for some improvement.
Is she still throwing up? If so, is she throwing up on an empty stomach or after she eats? Slippery elm and tylan could both help with this.
I have never used raw pancreas, but there is information on how to prepare it, including letting it sit, on this page: https://epi4dogs.com/enzymes-in-brief/
Good luck!

Mary
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: Ohio
Pet name: Josie
My name: Mary

Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Mary » 28 Jun 2020, 23:06

Thanks Shirl,i appreciate you;)i have read those pages,still not seeing raw pancreas advice but i am letting it set.As for the throwing up,she is doing it at different times,she will wretch,shake her head and throw up now clear fluid,she is drinking ALOT of water.Im hoping her system is digesting as well ,still no poop.She is panting ALOT,and has been for quite some time,im hoping slippery elm will give her relief.We havd a 9 day camping trip coming uo,and cleaning up after her is gonna be challenging,but i cant leave her as she is VERY anxious without me.I just love my girl,and praying for a settled down system for her.

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Jean
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Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Jean » 29 Jun 2020, 05:47

she is not on her own Mary, there are many

I havent heard you have to leave raw pancreas to sit, so just feed
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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Shirl D.
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Country: United States
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Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Shirl D. » 29 Jun 2020, 07:13

Hi Mary,

Here is what the Enzymes in Brief page says about raw pancreas:

"FEEDING RAW PANCREAS: If you would like to try using raw pancreas; fresh beef, pork or lamb pancreas are recommended. Raw BEEF Pancreas is available for purchase in the USA at http://www.hare-today.com/ or http://www.greentripe.com/ , and new resource as of 2012 on the USA eastern coast is http://www.greencuisine4pets.com/products.htm . There is also an amazing selection of raw pancreas at: https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/ . If you are in the U.K. you can look into http://rawtogo.co.uk/ . One to three or four ounces of raw pancreas can replace one teaspoon of pancreatic extract. Raw pancreas may be frozen in cubes for future use and thawed naturally, but never heat on the stove or in the microwave.
If possible beef or lamb raw pancreas is recommended over pork pancreas because of the “possibility” of the transmission of pseudorabies, although rare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorabies
Also… raw pancreas is not all the same. Each and every gland has a different potency of enzymes. This is not just species to species. The potency can vary from one farm animal to another farm animal as well. If you use 1 ounce of raw pancreas with the batch you are currently using the next batch may need to be tweaked. Fresh pancreas has a shelf life (in the freezer) of up to 3 months.
Adding enzymes to a raw fed meal:
Since raw food is harder to measure by the cup since the densities of different meat/bones will require different levels of enzymes, it is easiest to go by weight rather than amount! ” To add the enzymes, you can either puree a portion of the raw meat and add the enzymes to that pureed slurry and pour over the remainder of the raw food, let sit for 20 minutes and serve, or you can add the enzymes to something like yogurt/kefir and either add to the food as mentioned above, or serve the enzymed slurry first ahead of the meal. Try both to see which works best with your EPI dog. (Thank you Cait for these great suggestions!)"


Drinking a lot is very common when dogs first start the enzymes. We're not sure quite why, but it usually resolves within a month or so. Be aware, some dogs start having accidents in the house because they are drinking so much, but as I said, it gets better!
Earlier in the year, another member asked about her dog panting a lot. Here's a link to that thread.
(Titled Increased Breathing and Panting) You can read the responses. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=317&p=8410&hilit=panting#p8410
The throwing up may be from SID (small intestinal dysbiosis), which both the slippery elm and tylan should help with. The B12 may help, too, as her levels improve.
How long has she been on the enzymes? How much enzymes have you been using? It looks like you haven't had much, if any, improvement with her poop yet, so I'm trying to see if it's because she's not getting enough enzymes. I realize it's hard to get her to eat with the enzymes on the food, but it's vital that she get enough enzyme in her system when she eats one way or another. Madelon had mentioned putting the enzymes in capsules rather than mixing it with the food. If you can't camouflage the enzymes and get her to eat it in the food, I would definitely try that. If you do try it, give her the capsules then feed her right away, no need to wait.
Hopefully we can get some improvement before your camping trip! How soon is your trip?

Mary
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: Ohio
Pet name: Josie
My name: Mary

Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Mary » 29 Jun 2020, 17:27

Poop is water still:( refusung to eat anything now,no mstter what i cover it with.panting is excessive.all i can do is cry.The throwing up didnt start until i gave the enzyme,ordered slippery elm today.have also noticed swelling in back right foot:(

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Shirl D.
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Country: United States
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Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Shirl D. » 29 Jun 2020, 18:11

Did you try giving the enzymes in a capsule rather than mixing it with the food?

Mary
Member
Posts: 10
Country: United States
State: Ohio
Pet name: Josie
My name: Mary

Re: Just diagnosed and need help.

Post by Mary » 06 Jul 2020, 11:12

I have taken my josie off of the enzymes,i put her on taste of the wild bison,and simply started with slippery elm.Her poop is now getting more firm,less belly aches and she is resting much more comfortable.

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